Best Mods For An Engine

[Guest hypermick]

Peter,. thanks very much for your input. It's very refreshing to get a reply which is immediately constructive and based on your own experiences of engineering. It makes for supporting the forum topic in discussion and thankfully outweighs the unnecessary remarks we've just witnessed from Chris, who at his age should know better, and Jetskijase, who sadly seems to take the view that text edited profanity outweighs good discussion, Words fail me !

 

Back to the carbs,. I've taken the opportunity to look very closely at the different sizes available, which in fact has meant purchasing a number of sets for experimental purposes. At present with the market tight on R1's ( out there but a touch pricey) there is a consideration to use alternatives but not to the effect where performance variation becomes an issue. In fact so far the average ideal size is , without a doubt 38mm and these can be found, economically priced, from a number of common bike models at this time. The experiments being carried out will be continuing and hopefully we should arrive at a point where we can draw a balance of performanace and tractability. Its not impossible it just takes time as I'm sure you know.

 

It is interesting also to note from the hardware side for example that in several instances (not all) the outer carbs of the respective sets are, in the bike applications differently jetted to the centre two carbs. Also the spacings of the carbs can run from equal between carbs 1&2 and 3&4, (wider in the centre carbs 2-3) through to one set which has equidistant spacing 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 but 3 to 4 is wider due to the throttle pull configuration, which at this time means a manifold has to be created each time unless the carb spacings are altered. This is certainly food for thought and I've had extensive discussions with an engineering colleague to take up and addresss this point in more detail so that in future it is more practical for those who want to do so, to fit bike carbs with less fuss. Of course this doesn't forego the need to have them set up properly for each respective engine. More on this later.

 

As for the throttle bodies I was keen to see (firstly from a personal interest point of view) what was available in the bike market that could be properly adapted primarily to the Pinto engine. What I discovered was that most of the TB's are being mated directly to short tubed manifolds and that the injectors are only running at part efficiency due to the distance they sit from the cylinder head inlet ports. I posted a photo in the earlier thread of a some TB's viewed directly through a Pinto injection inlet gasket, the profiles of which mate correctly size/size. At this time there is a school of thought which points squarely towards a different style of fabrication to replace the short tube manifold and again there will be more on this later on. Development is time consuming and expensive and my part in this is to research on the adaptability aspects without relying too much on the present methods which at this time are out there but of a limited and somewhat expensive nature.

 

 

Mick

[Guest salty_monk]

Can't the injectors be mounted into the inlet manifold directyl inorder to get them closer to where the action is??

 

In Practical Performance Car there is a Pug 106 on Bike TB using Megasquirt. He's blanked off the holes in the Bike TB's & used the original ones in the head.

 

Just a thought.....

 

Dan

[Guest hypermick]

Dan,.

 

I can see the line your thinking along and from an initial practical point to get the injectors up to where they need to be it would seem the only way to do it. This in turn would point straight back towards the standard Pinto injection sytem.

 

Moving aside from that, what we're working on is a different flanging method so that the injector bodies are virtually in contact with the cylinder head face to face placing them in the correct operating positions. Trouble is its all very time consuming to get them exactly right and to make the method instantly repeatable, (the idea for doing it in the first place) which of course is what makes all the one off fabrications so very expensive.

 

 

Mick.

[Guest Takumi]

spacing - - thats the killer..lol I've just finished a manifold for a Pug/Citroen Tu5JP engine (Saxo VTR/106XSi) the carbs are mounted now and all looks good, just left to cut some thick card or rubber gaskets out.

 

funny thing tho, the TU5 engine the ports are too close together! I've had to make 2 \ / manifolds to widen the ports out to match the carbs.. you can never win..!

[Guest hypermick]

Hi Tak,. supporting the cause to use bike carbs eh ???

 

Agree, the spacing is the main problem, but we're getting there !

 

 

 

Mick.

[Longboarder]

Mick, thanks for posting the additional information on manufacturers variation of piston top to block face distance that I didn't. I hadn't felt that at the level of tuning I was suggesting that it was particularly important.

 

As this thread is about a few extra horses for Simon, (you remember Simon?) and not about your research into throttle body/manifold design/injector placement could you explain to Simon how he should use this information in practice.

 

Nigel

[Guest tom2b]

All i can say is information overload!

[Guest hypermick]

Nigel,.

 

There was no intention to detract from the original topic, but since Megasquirt etc,. was mentioned earlier the other input on the carbs & TB's got dragged unintentionally along with the thread.

 

According to the data I have here the piston crowns (when at TDC) should be approximately 18-20 thou below the block face, on a standard 2.0 ltr engine. I've just had a look also on an engine here in the workshop which has slight carbon deposit on the crowns and its difficult to get a feeler guage above 17 thou between the straight edge and the crown so that would tie up in a practical world.

 

I think the cautionary note to consider is where the block and pistons appear to be level with one another (perhaps in a case where its suspected the block has previously been machined) in which case due compensation should be allowed when deciding how much to actually take off the head.

 

I've addressed this point since it's very common for combinations of engine parts to be used which have never been run together previously, and it simply makes sense to check these things out as part of the tune up plan. Could also save a nasty "clunk" too !

 

 

Mick.

Edited October 16, 2006 by hypermick

[Guest jetskijase]

Mick,

Who said anything about trying to ruffle you up?? I didn't, i was simply pointing out that there's no need for some of your comments. And from your comments i can denote quite confidently that you are a complete arsehole.

 

And i'am still waiting for some info from your vast enginering experiance that i/ simon, could put into practice simply and cheaply,

 

I'am currently fitting cbr 600 throttle bodies and fitting megasquirt, as i have done most of the cheaper upgrades etc in my 2b.

 

Simon, my upgrades that ive done have been mentioned already in this thread, mainly under everyone's post except hyperdick's.

 

Yes bike tb's are the future, and yes i'am having a go, but no i'am not about to condisend anyone who want's a few more hp on the cheap or doe'snt explain themselves totally or has silly idea's because they're not totally clued up, that's how you learn.

 

Heaven forbid you make a comment like 60 thou removal when hyperdick's involved in the discussion.

 

Any question's simon, pm me.

 

CHeers and good luck mate

Jason

[1186497]

Hi Guys, thanks for the advice everyone..... seems a lot has happened since the last time i looked, if i knew what half of it meant then i would look into it!!

 

However i am sure it has been helpful for all........

 

Nigel i think your post has got basically what i was looking for with what can be done for what cost......although i will have to look into the whole 60 - 40 -30 thou bit!! Why would you choose a piper 285 cam over a kent fr32?? sorry dont know what the differences are

 

As i have a brand new standard head i suppose it seems silly to buy a new modded on from somewhere, is there a good place to get the like of skimming and polishing done?? that is resonably based, or a website that explains the process?

 

Bike carbs seem to be the way forward with the budget in mind. Although there seems little clarity on what ones would be best, and easiest to fit. Although i'll get the head done and worry about this later.

 

Also exhaust wise......adding a 4 in 1 manifold rather than the standard pinto one, how much extra bhp is this worth.

 

Cheers guys

[Guest chris brown]

Also exhaust wise......adding a 4 in 1 manifold rather than the standard pinto one, how much extra bhp is this worth.

If you are thinking of fitting the RH one then the answer is very little, in fact someone on here not long back maintained the cast iron manifold was better. The problem with the RH 4 into 1 is all the pipes are of different lengths. There are better ones around both 4 into 1 and 4 into 2 into 1 but are much more expensive. If on a tight budget I would convert the RH twin int a 2 into 1 and spend out on a new rear box.

[Guest hypermick]

Jetskijase,. people like you should be drowned at birth. A posting like your last one only goes to show how ignorant and uneducated you really are.

 

Its beneath my dignity to rise to your futile insults, which clearly shine through your inability to express yourself properly. You are without doubt the sort of person, who trots through life dishing out abuse whenever it suits him. The breeding ground for all and sundry to comment upon, especially those from the Locost site, who will no doubt revel in the postings you have placed, once again showing them that the RHOC spend more time fighting than they do making use of the forums, something the rest of us have been cautious about, especially over the last few weeks.

 

Congratulations, nice work, you bring the RHOCAR Community once again back into the land of disrepute, well done.

 

 

You didn't need to comment at all on anything I said but you did, directly at me, whereas my comments were never addressed to you, until now.

 

If you care to post your name and address I'll ensure you get the latest starter package from Learn Direct, you certainly missed out on your education, didn't you. A real IQ0 if ever there was one.

 

To everyone else, and particularly to Simon who opened the topic, apologies for this posting, but this clown deserves it.

 

 

Mick.

[Guest Battery Bill]

Congratulations, nice work, you bring the RHOCAR Community once again back into the land of disrepute, well done.

 

I think actually, you are managing this quite well on your own Mick

 

How many others are you going to insult then before you finish?

 

 

 

Oh s**t that will give the Locost tossers who don't like me something else to slag me off about

 

But hey who cares!

[1186497]

Well i would just like to say that its opinions that count, and i appriciate everyones input, however i dont think we need to keep having a go at each other....... I have appriciated Micks comments as well as all of yours.

 

If we didnt have different opinions it would be a boring discussion, but i think this has got a bit out of hand, so lets get back to the great debate, as i am sure we have all learned things from this post!!

 

I hope.........

[Guest jetskijase]

Just my last note, so i can allow the thread to contuine productively,

 

I've never made a nasty comment to anyone on this board since i joined in 2003, then all of sudden people have been coming on here with condecending comments to peoples' replies and generally being rude to people and blatently acting as if they know it all and everyone else doesn't

 

And i've been reading most post's on this site and it's always your post's that wind me up, yes yours mick no one else's just yours hypermick, thats why they are directed at you. No one else is as rude as you and you needed to be told and will be contiunely be told for as long as you write rude reply's. I'am not talking about engineering and this might get wiped which is understandable, but as long as you've read this i don't mind.

 

 

Ands it got nothing to do with rhocar, it's to do with you, rhocar practically built my 2b, without it i'd have struggled.

And let's hope locost pick up this thread and look at threads you've been involved in and if they still can, tell you to take your derogatry comments and rudeness elsewhere.

 

There're also not futile insults....they just have a certain ring to them and fit the bill, hyperdick..

 

Thanks for your information concerning this thread i'am sure someone will find it useful.

 

Jason