Best Mods For An Engine

[Guest elwe]

So the ideal set up for a pinto would be an injection head rather than carbs?

So ideally on a £500 tune of the head what would you want......

You talk about megasquirt at not much cost..how much?

 

An injection head flows better. You could put injection on a non injection head though. If using the sierra inlet manifold you would have to make the ports egg shaped with a die grinder.

 

A megasquirt II kit with case etc. is $256. The cheapest option would be to use the sierra injection inlet manifold but you can get some bike throttle bodies for under £100 and either make a manifold or buy one. Alternativly PPC had an article on making your own throttle bodies!

[1186497]

Cheers guys, soo much information,

 

Sounds like there is a hell of a lot you can do to the old pinto, although all this talk of skimming etc sounds a little complicated, so might watch out for one coming available thats already done!!

 

On a slightly different note....... what are the costs of putting a zetec in a 2B ? and how hard is it?

 

I searched a bit on here for it and saw a figure of £2k quoted, has anyone done it for less? Although the 2L black tops seem about £500 on thier own

 

I'm sure many people have done this conversion, and i think its probably the way forward compared to a pinto, but has anyone compiled a step by step guide to converting one? If not.....someone should and get selling it!!

[Bob Tucker]

My XE engine cost £305. Handy when SWMBO asked how much my new engine cost,

I could tell her the truth.

 

She didnt ask what the bellhousing, sump, rebuild gasket kit, new bearings, twin 45 dellortoes,

new inlet manifold, custom exhaust manifold, floor mounted brake pedal, tandem master cylinder,

assorted stainless brake lines, twin core rad, hybrid clutch set & custom ignition system cost.

 

Overall, I'm up to £2k, & still not finished.

 

I cant see a Zetec being much cheaper, without a great deal of luck on Ebay.

You may not need the sump or bellhousing, but I gather there are water pump & thermostat issues

instead

 

HTH Bob

[Joel]

I am looking to mod the engine through the winter to tune it up so it achieves a decent 0-60 time, if you have a spare minute i would appriciate your opinions on what the best mods are to do to achieve the quickest 0-60......apart from change the engine

 

Going back to the original post, I don't know if it makes any actual difference to what mods you would choose to do to an engine (I don't know anything about engines!), but I always thought building an engine specifically to do fast 0-60 times was pretty pointless as unless you live at Santa Pod it's not really applicable to everyday driving. Far more useful is having good overtaking ability, say 50 - 80.

 

I'm running a completely standard 2.0 pinto on the awful weber 2V carb and ESCII, and my 0-60 time is fine, but I have big 'heart in the mouth' moments when I try and overtake long trucks and realise half way through the manouver that I may have made a big error of judgement!

 

That's the area I'd be looking to improve

[Guest jasonmorris]

I had major problems with crankcase breathing and borewash on my 2 litre pinto. I feel it is important to point out that no matter what you do to improve the power output, ensure that this is sorted first. I learnt the hard way.

 

As for my engine I now wished that I had gone down the Zetec route due to the amount of money i have spent. It currently stands me at somewhere between £2.5k - £3k which has all been done in stages. The spec is as follows:

 

1) Engine has been fully stripped cleaned and rebuilt by John Noble Motorsport in Chesterfield

2) Crank lightened and balanced

3) Flywheel lightened and balanced

4) lighter tougher piston rods

5) 2.1 displacement increase and pistons

6) Cosworth 205 block

7) Gas flowed head

Larger valves

9) Piper cam kit including followers and spraybar

10) Kawasaki zx9r bike carbs on Bogg Brothers manifold

11)Kawasaki fuel pump

 

The list keeps on growing. Think seriously about how much you intend to spend as you can end up spending thousands on what is essentially an old engine design for less and less gain. I don't know what BHP my engine has got as I am still running it in and not had a final power run on the dyno yet. Although I believe a figure of around 170bhp - 180bhp is the norm for this kind of spec.

[1186497]

 

Well i think i will stick to the trusty old pinto, more hassle than its worth i imagine looking down the zetec or bike route!!

 

On the head from i think i'm going to look out on various sites to see if a good one comes up already done, as i doubt after i have cocked things up it will work out much cheaper to do it myself

 

Can anyone give me a few things that i should look out for in a new head, i.e

 

Carbs

Cam

Compression

Valves

etc....

 

Also what is the deal with Bike Carbs?? I have seen a few posts but nobody has actually said the advantages/disadvantages? or are they that obvious

 

Saw some one using R1 Carbs which seemed to give hime better torque than 45's??

If a good idea, how easy are they to fit?

 

Once again, thanks for any help.

[Snapperpaul]

Gas flow is what makes power, both inlet flow and exhaust flow so if you buy a head make sure you know the standard flow of a Pinto head then you will know how much more flow you are getting. The porting is the most important, then the valve size, you only really need bigger inlet valves. The valves will not flow any more once they have been lifted to a quarter of there diameter, thats lift at the valve not cam lift.

So pick your specifications with care as they all interact.

 

Carbs

Cam

Compression

Valves

etc....

 

What you can afford but don't overlook the DGAS from the 3 litre essex engines, it's good for at least 150bhp and it's cheap compared with multiple carbs.

 

You can get away with a more radical cam because of the lightness of the car but be aware of your rev limit, the rods are only good to 6,700 at best, unmodified.

 

10.3 to 1 for 95 octane and 10.8 to one for 97 octane, the Felpro gasket which is thinner when crushed than the standard one takes it from 9.2 to 9.7. Thin gasket and 1.5mm skimmed off the head gives about 10.7.

 

Large inlet, ports matched and three angle valve seats.

[Guest Stevieshood]

I think everyone has just about mentioned the most cost effective mods.

 

I've got a 2.0L injection engine with the standard cast Sierra exhaust manifold, and a skimmed head with cleaned up ports and combustion chambers (especially the exhaust). All done to the guide in "How to Power Tune SOHC Engine" by Des Hamill. I've then got a Kent FR34 injection cam which has rapid (and high) lift but fairly short duration to suit the low rev limit of the ecu. Its quite a torque beast! If you don't need to rev it high, the standard exhaust mani isn't that restrictive. My next plan is to fit a signal interrupt box to tune up the ignition timing, to a lesser extent the fuel map, and raise the rev limit to 6700rpm.

 

To be honest, anything beyond this involves alot of work and would be wasted with the standard crap suspension (I can't wait to fix that rear camber!). Also, the Pinto is a big boat anchor (something like 160kg!) and moving to a modern Duratec would still allow you to use the Type9/MT75 box and the exhaust is on the same side. It also weighs 95kg with ancillaries, and this represents a massive weight saving, and leads to far better handling. I think with a bit of planning this could be done for £2k with the standard inlet and an aftermarket ecu. This would give you at least 170-180bhp.

 

Its all about budget performance motoring though. The RH will never be an Ariel Atom or Radical (I wish! )

[Guest salty_monk]

Andy Parry in Kent has just put in a Blackbird engine... around 170BHP he thinks... Might be worth speaking to him about costs.

 

He fabricated his own frame apart from the engine this is all you need plus a baffled sump, uprated springs & a dyno run/tune up I think....

 

On the flip side you then have a load of parts to Ebay such as your engine, box, rad etc etc

 

Dan

[1186497]

The tought of a bike engine had crossed my mind, the main attraction been the size and weight of one, as i bet you wouldnt have to show horn one in!!!

 

Anyone know the rough costs involved, i would have thought more than the 2K for a zetec. and probably a lot harder to fit!

[Guest salty_monk]

Most expensive bit will be the engine, a good one will cost you about 800 quid to a grand, more if you want a Busa....

 

Baffled sump is about £200 I think. Then you need the splined convertor for the output to flywheel £100 ish I think.

 

You can make the mounting cradle yourself, might need a new pedal box £200... fuel pump from the bike, can't think of much else.... (unless it's a fuel injected bike engine - in which case I guess you might need some engine management).

 

On the flip if you have a decent engine etc fitted you can probably get 150 notes for engine & box & a bit extra for ancillaries rad etc...

 

No reverse though...

 

Dan

[Guest hypermick]

It seems that the thought of engine mods goes from one extreme to the next, and its easy to lose sight of the initial aim which is to get the most power for the least money spent.

 

I posted an earlier reply which is based on taking the pinto out of its standard form, gaining respectable increases,using that as a starting point.

 

If I can just say this folks,. do the research before the rush of ideas cloud over the reality of the final expenses bill you might well be met with.

 

Fuel injection, bike carbs, Blackbird engines,. etc etc have all been mentioned here but these conversions are not straight forward, if you want to do the job properly. See Salty's comment about the loss of reverse gear when fitting a bike engine. And by the way theres a little more too it than finding the correct output drive flange for the bike engine. Also if you go up the Hyabusa route the current cost of a Busa lump is £1800 upwards from most of the breakers !!!

 

Here is an example of just one (small) problem :

 

You can go on EBay and buy a particular set of throttle bodies off a motorbike which, believe it or not match exactly size for size to the ports on a pinto injection head. So far so good. But the venturi spacing is way out, thats problem number one. Ok so you say, get a manifold made to mount them and get them respaced. Good idea but now they sit too far from the head itself to be any way efficient,. ( they need to be mounted directly so that the injection spray is straight into the combustion chamber, not travelling down the inside of a manifold tube) think hard, how are you going to do that ?

 

Have a look at the picture attached.

 

Also, dont believe that using R1 carbs is the be all and end all of going up the motorbike carb conversion route. R1 carbs have 40mm choke tubes, you will actually lose a great deal of driving tractability, unless youre planning on driving everywhere at 6500/7000 rpm ! From the tests Ive had a hand in over the last few weeks 37mm and 38mm are by far better suited, and more easily obtainable.

 

Happy Days !

 

 

Mick

[Guest Takumi]

Agree , in this instance slightly smaller is better than way to big.

[1186497]

I agree Mick, whenever i think about engines i always tend to get carried away with ideas, although its deciding what to do for the best.

 

Stick with the pinto, which was brand new.....tune it up a bit, however power will never be huge unless i spend lots. Ideally would get a pre modded head with decent carbs, but prob looking at £600 - £800. And in the end its still a heavy pinto that i would not want forever

 

Zetec/Duratec installation would be nice, but costs of £2K that have been quoted, mean its out of budget

 

Bike engines i dont know much about, although the quick accelaration and sound is probably enough for me to choose this over a zetec or Duratec. Not really sure on costs of this but i think someone said about £1500 which would still be overbudget. But hey if you are going to do it i would like to do it once and then be able to leave it.

 

Anyone know a good link or has anyone done a bike engine for this amount or less? and knows what is involved.

[Peter Bell]

Also, dont believe that using R1 carbs is the be all and end all of going up the motorbike carb conversion route. R1 carbs have 40mm choke tubes, you will actually lose a great deal of driving tractability, unless youre planning on driving everywhere at 6500/7000 rpm ! From the tests Ive had a hand in over the last few weeks 37mm and 38mm are by far better suited, and more easily obtainable.

 

The only problem with your statement Mick is that if these were DCOEs it would be correct, but as they are not and are constant velocity carbs it is wrong. The throttle slides only open up as the airflow increases, so you would only get maximum opening when the engine is on full song. They are simple carbs, have no pump jets, correction jets emulsion tubes etc. etc. I have had them on my pinto for a year now and think they are great, smoother than the DGAS I had and will potter at low revs wonderfully. You do not however get the instant surge (then stutter) of webers which just pump neat fuel in to compensate for the big open choke size.

I think anyone who has tried them will probably agree with me

Peter