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No Power To Coil / Pump


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ok, it just occured to me I may be missing a relay :rolleyes:

 

I've been using an Ignition Relay and an Engine management relay, but I noticed in a photo of the Sierra fuse box before I stripped it out, that there was a second engine management relay in there.

 

Can anyone tell me what this one did and do I need it?

 

In the picture;

I've been using Eng Mang relay (position D - Brown),

Ignition Relay (position 1 - black),

 

and the spare one is in position 11 - yellow

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joel,

you might have found the problem

looking at the wiring diagram it seems you need all three relays ( 1, 11 & D)

Relay D supplies power to the fuel pump via fuse 23

Relay 11 supplies power to the injectors and relay D via the ecu.

 

Diag. of fusebox

post-180-1166917882_thumb.jpg

 

Pop the relay in and try it

 

Les

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Joel are you using the sierra fuse box. I got the impression you were not. Your wiring diagram is fine as far as it goes. What you have labelled ignition relay is working as management relay 11. If you put in an ignition relay as below it doesn't change the basic circuit as you have drawn it, just adds itself between ignition switch and relay 11. Make sure you do have clean supply to TFI and coil+ from ignition relay. Note coil- goes to TFI unit and rev counter. You have missed out the idlespeed valve on the diagram (but have probably wired it in on the car).

I would suspect your first thought was correct and you are losing supply from ignition switch position 2 when cranking in position 3. Try wiring in a temporary live from battery positive to 86 on relay 11 without disconnecting any wires and try to start it. (purple wire) If it works it suggests the ignition switch is faulty.

 

Nigel

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Hmmm :( Was hoping for an early Christmas present but it wasn't to be.

 

Ok, I wired in the extra relay as per Nigel's diagram, and the symptoms are the same - everything primes at ignition position 2, but then the pump and injectors die when cranking in position 3.

 

I tried putting in the temporary wire direct from battery + to pin 86 on Engine Management relay 11, and it caused everythign to prime (as it would normally do at ignition position 2 - i.e fuel pump primes and injectors click), but then nothing at ignition position 3, when cranking.

 

Then for no apparent reason, I hadn't changed anything else, it started blowing fuses, and I started to get depressed, which is no state to be in at christmas, so I walked away -_-

 

Thanks again for the help anyway. To be continued.............

 

Oh, yes Nigel it's a Premier Wiring Systems loom, so not the Sierra fuse box. :)

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Joel

 

If the fuel pump primes when the ignition is turned on then the ECU must be getting a live and an earth in order to swich the fuel pump relay and prime the fuel pump.Which makes me think the main (ignition relay) and the fuel pump relay are wired and working ok.

And if you can also get a spark from the coil by bridging the dizzy wires then the coil and TFI unit must also be wired and working ok.

Since you already have live feed at the dizzy and assuming also at the injectors. It still sounds like its not being triggerd by the dizzy,

 

Danny

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i have only 2 relays within my engine loom, so that should all be in order.

The only wires that needed connecting to the loom in my case were the switched live and the tacho feed, with another feed from the battery, and a power supply to the pump.

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  • 5 months later...

Finally got around to addressing this little problem again :rolleyes:

 

Ok, going back to the LED test on the Crank Position Sensor - what does it mean if the LED stays 'on' at ignition position II and during cranking? (i.e. no flashing)?

 

Cheers.

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no flashing, with wiring loom still connected, and led contacting terminals means duff dizzy.

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  • 3 months later...

And here we go again.....this must be the longest unsolved problem in Hoodie history! :cray:

 

OK, to recap I've got a 2.0 injection pinto that cranks but won't fire.

 

Premier wiring systems loom with the original engine sub-loom intact, ESC IV, etc etc.

 

Fuel pump and injectors prime at ignition position II, and the engine cranks but it won't fire. There's power getting as far as the dizzy cap/rotor arm, but nothing past that - i.e. no spark. There's fuel getting as far as the rail, but the chambers are dry.

 

I'm on my third CPS dizzy but symptoms are the same with each. Tried 2 TFI modules, and again no joy. I've painstakingly traced back all the wiring from the ESC IV, and everything is connected where it should be.

 

Dizzy cap, rotor arm, HT leads, plugs, etc, are all brand new. Coil is reading correct resistance. Fuel pump works fine when connect direct to power. Rotor arm is indeed rotating. Ummm.....basically everything I can think to check seems to be fine, but I just can't get a spark.

 

Please someone.....Nigel......anyone!! I'm running out of walls to bang my head against :fool:

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Hey Joel,

 

I've just had a thought, one of those dead simple things that can sometimes get overlooked!

 

Did we check the dizzy was still getting power during crank?, sometimes a duff key switch can drop ignition during crank, so everything seems fine at ignition II, but then important things fall over during crank (and of course start working again as soon as you release the key!)

 

Worth a double check?............

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Joel

 

Check for battery voltage at the + pin on the dizzy plug during cranking,Should be the same as the battery voltage during cranking.

Check the voltage at the 0 pin on the dizzy plug,This should be a low voltage reading.

If you volt drop (battery negative to negative) or - pin on the dizzy you should have zero or certainly less than 0-5 volts.

If all the readings are correct and as I said before bridging 0 and - switches the coil and makes injectors pulse I was taught that is is almost certainly the dizzy.

 

Hope this helps

Danny

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Been trying to think logically and can only think that somehow the computer is not getting the message that the dizzy is turning. If it was the pump would run as the brief run it does when you switch on has proved that circuit. So possibles are the dizzy is not generating a signal, it does but the signal doesn't get to the computer or the computer gets the signal but can't use it.

You have proved the coil and amp by getting a spark by shorting the dizzy connector earth to signal wire. Have you continuity from dizzy connector to TFI unit and EEC pin 56. You should get a spark when cranking, wether the EEC's working or not. Pull a plug and lay it on the engine with its case earthed and lead connected. Should see a spark when cranking. Should also see a rev counter reading when cranking. If neither of these is happening then the dizzy is not giving a signal.

 

Nigel

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Hmmm......we might be on to something here.

 

Battery voltage at the + pin on the dizzy CPS plug is the same as battery voltage, both at ign II and during cranking (13v normal and 12v during crank)

 

Battery voltage at 0 pin on the dizzy plug is zero at all times, both at ign II and during cranking. I'm guessing this isn't right?

 

Battery voltage at the - pin is zero.

 

 

Shorting pin 0 and + on the dizzy has no effect - i.e. no spark or fuel pump / injector action.

 

The LED test - the LED stays 'on' at ign II and during cranking (i.e no flashing).

 

So is there an issue with pin O on the dizzy? I traced back all the wiring and it seems to be connected everywhere it should be.

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