Is This The End Of The Sva ?

[peter_m7uk]

Older / basic ABS systems to the best of my knowledge only look at weight for a pre programed max decelleration speed on the wheels. The computer looks at this so when the wheels stop it can decided 1 - Are they locked up ? 2 - Has he stoped and needs the brakes to remain stationary (20kph point is when ABS turns it's self on / off).

 

So.......

 

This is where you get your problem...... I dare say a 700kg hood can outbrake a mondeo so when if stop sharply at a set of traffic lights on a hill an ABS system will assumed all 4 wheels are locked and you'll soon be in for a nasty shock.

 

The good news is that the brains behind ABS at this level are really really basic. Someone will have an aftermarket setup on sale in no time if it's needed. (Thats assuming people dont figure out how to modify the programming on existing units.)

 

(Thats all based on an old project I had to do @ Uni so things may well have changed or the grey matter could be failing.....)

 

But what if you're going up a steep hill in the Mondeo? In that case, a Mondeo could stop faster than a Hood, so the system

must be robust to this. Even if the system does think that all 4 wheels are locked, the nasty shock would just

be that the ABS operates, so I can't see weight being any problem. Also, most ABS systems apply individual

brakes, as the wheels tend not to lock at the same time. The ABS software looks for sudden differences in wheel

speeds, which is independent of vehicle weight, and relieves braking from the suddenly decelerating wheel.

ABS is pretty simple, so it's not the complexity that should bother kit car builders, just the added expense and

hassle of extra sensors and brake actuators. If the ABS system was to come with the donor car, then the expense

is minimal. I would still oppose a rule change to mandatory ABS on principle, but I think if the rule did come in

it wouldn't be so bad.

 

Peter

[Guest gdc]

i have first hand experiance that the sva is being tightened up .

forget the test .

you first have to get the application approved!

and thats now not in 9 months time!

i may be being treated differently to other builders in that i have svad 2 in 2 years , but dont think for a minute that you if you are awaiting sva you wont be affected.it would appear that from my heated conversation with mr sva that all areas of both application and test have been tightened up.

this then comes back to the title of this topic .

is this the end of the sva .

i dont think so but its going to be very much harder to both fulfill the chritera for the application and to pass the actual test.

we will always find a way to to complete the car and if they change the rules or just enforce those existing regs more forcefully then we will addapt, we have it appears been dictated to by the euro prats to adhere to their rules

and if we are in the euro paradise then we must addapt.

 

or just stay on our island and boswolks to them all.

 

graham

ps peter i am sorry but i think you may have missed my point

[peter_m7uk]

i have first hand experiance that the sva is being tightened up .

forget the test .

you first have to get the application approved!

and thats now not in 9 months time!

i may be being treated differently to other builders in that i have svad 2 in 2 years , but dont think for a minute that you if you are awaiting sva you wont be affected.it would appear that from my heated conversation with mr sva that all areas of both application and test have been tightened up.

this then comes back to the title of this topic .

is this the end of the sva .

i dont think so but its going to be very much harder to both fulfill the chritera for the application and to pass the actual test.

we will always find a way to to complete the car and if they change the rules or just enforce those existing regs more forcefully then we will addapt, we have it appears been dictated to by the euro prats to adhere to their rules

and if we are in the euro paradise then we must addapt.

 

or just stay on our island and boswolks to them all.

 

graham

ps peter i am sorry but i think you may have missed my point

 

 

Sorry, was just replying to the ABS discussion If this is the end of SVA, I'd better get a

move on with my Lightweight! The testers might be worried about my car under the current system,

so if it tightens up, I may be really struggling Hope the prats at the DVLA come to their

senses over your application, Graham Is DanDan's car also a LW Mk2? Maybe they

think that the Mk2 is a new design altogether???

 

Pete

[Guest gdc]

Sorry, was just replying to the ABS discussion If this is the end of SVA, I'd better get a

move on with my Lightweight! The testers might be worried about my car under the current system,

so if it tightens up, I may be really struggling Hope the prats at the DVLA come to their

senses over your application, Graham Is DanDan's car also a LW Mk2? Maybe they

think that the Mk2 is a new design altogether???

 

Pete

no probs pete i was just trying to make all of us more aware of the difficulties we face in the future.

dans car is the mk2 and all paper work says just that.

re the phone call to mr sva , i was initially told that the reason for the additional info request was because i had filled in the form wrong?strange as it was coppied from the 1st lightweight application albeit with engine differences.

afrer that i asked was the problem because i had 2 previouse sva passes , he said that was the main reasonfor the delayin proccesing the application.

i have told him that the car will b regestered to me as will the auto vertionand i do not intend to sell any of them .

i am waiting for the ballance of the recipts to come from n/hampton dvla and i will then send them all to vosa along with a

declaration that i am not a buisness manufacturing the cars for sale.

maby i need counceling regarding my obsession with these cars but i am not mad enough to think you could make money out of building and selling r/h kits .

 

regards graham

ps get finnishing these kits

[Guest gdc]

had a message tonight and it would appear the vosa are being looked at .

in that we as a country want to have the sva retained and prove to europe that it is a robust test of an amature built car.

and the european twats want us to addopt their ways of dealing with kits (they dont deal with kits at all )

so vosa are it would appear being more robust with both the application and the test for ammature builds.

as they have to be seen to be efficient.

so is this a good thing . yes in my humble opinion as they are trying to keep the only means by which we can build and regester a home built car.

so it gets harder so we addapt!

 

regards graham

[Guest Steve Allen]

GDC, all that you have stated is true, it is also worth while looking at the other sites i.e. Westfield. MK etc.

it was bound to happen at some point as "we" are now part of the European community, I have also put 3 cars through the SVA process and it will only get harder, how long it will last before we need airbags and side impact etc is anyones guess, on this occasion we hope that the UK say stuff Europe.

bright side is, if you have a kit car n the road now then they may go up in price when this kicks in.

[Guest allenr03]

I bet ABS has a speed sensor input from an ecu or a gearbox/reed sensor. That way it can compare what the wheels are doing with the speed info it is getting. There must be somethignlike this, take the car in a hill scenario. If the ABS system only relied on the turning of the wheels to determine speed and the relate speed of each wheel it would have a problem when the car was stationarty. Firstly, it wouldn't know to tuen itself off at 20kp/h if it didn't have a speed input. secondly, under those circustances when the car was stationary on the hill the ABS would release the brakes and reappply repeatedly them meaning that the car would roll down hill - albeit slowy and jerkily!!!

 

 

ABS has always seemed fairly straightforward as a concept to me, an aftermarket company will produce one to kit kit cars very quickly and I don't think it would be prohibitively expensive.

 

I bet a Sierra ABS system could be made to work - no cost at all then - just have to work out how to mount the sensors and toothed rings!! (and all the other bits.....)

[Guest gdc]

but its not just abs or air bags or intelegent bits and bobs its the whole thing ,

its being looked at by brussels ,

the test has to appear to be robust ,

so both the application and the test have been tightened up.

so if we are to keep sva then we have to accept that this is what is going to happen .

the application will be harder , and the test.

 

regards graham

[Guest Guy]

I sent off my SVA application last week and got a letter this morning, they want to see receipts for all major components (which I don't have as they all came from the donor!) they also want pictures of the build to show that I built it.

 

I've printed off some pages from the WWW site and sent them the link.

[Guest gdc]

so the revised sva application is going in the post tommorrow

it has the figures from the first sva for the weights an addition for the engine and additional fuel cappacity.

i dont know what else to do

so its going in . the third application for ammature build status.

just because i have 2 svas under my belt they are classing me a heating engineer as a pro builder

i dont know what else to do!

so i spose see what happens

 

keep you informed

regards graham.

[Guest salty_monk]

Looking at the state of some of the specials & trikes etc on the road over here... MOT's & SVA's are a good thing!

 

Dan

[philshelton]

may be its time we all went to brussels in our cars to show how good us brits are at engineering. better still get other owners clubs to join us for a beer in the center of brussels.

[Swan Jnr]

can you imagine the Grand Place full of hoods? that would be great. a bar just off it that serves a beer called Morte Subite!!! (sudden death) and another with a horse hanging from the ceiling. sounds like a hoody kind of place

[Guest gdc]

the third revised application went in today.

the info seems to be not related to past sva applications but to suit a particular instance.

difficult to explain but all has to be by the book as it were.

the info i gave initially was regarding my results from lightweight no 1

i added a bit fior larger engine and fuel tank but this was refused as not accurate.

so xflow , all steel engine

to zetec part steel part ally .

i added30 kgs

re the tank

mine 3gall

dans 6 gall

i added 25 kg

plus the 80 kg for driver

 

mine was 310kg front

300kg rear

 

on the sva brake roller test and result

i dont know now if this is refused how to proceed

regards graham

[Guest salty_monk]

But what if you're going up a steep hill in the Mondeo? In that case, a Mondeo could stop faster than a Hood, so the system

must be robust to this. Even if the system does think that all 4 wheels are locked, the nasty shock would just

be that the ABS operates, so I can't see weight being any problem. Also, most ABS systems apply individual

brakes, as the wheels tend not to lock at the same time. The ABS software looks for sudden differences in wheel

speeds, which is independent of vehicle weight, and relieves braking from the suddenly decelerating wheel.

ABS is pretty simple, so it's not the complexity that should bother kit car builders, just the added expense and

hassle of extra sensors and brake actuators. If the ABS system was to come with the donor car, then the expense

is minimal. I would still oppose a rule change to mandatory ABS on principle, but I think if the rule did come in

it wouldn't be so bad.

 

Peter

 

Paul Mercer's Cossie powered 2b has the ABS fitted. I know Paul had some problems with it but not sure what or how he solved them.

 

Dan