Zetec Or Red Top

[Guest mcramsay]

hey there guys, ive just ordered my self a brand new zero superspec kit (just gotta wait 6 weeks before i can get it!) but i want to put a fairly decent engine in it, ive done alot of work with capris so im fairly familiar with the pinto engine and ive got 3 options really and i wanted some advice! i can either go 3 ways really, im currently building an unleaded pinto engine which is standard apart from ive taken 40 thou off the head, putting a decent cam in it, running a thinner head gasket and running it EFI, thing is the engine will still be 25 years old and im wanting more power. so im looking at either the 2.0 zetec or red top engine, im going more to wards the red top engine but i wanted to know, if i bought one of these engines and run motor bike carbs on it would i still need the ECU and wiring loom for the engine? if i do need the wiring loom will this (for either of the engines) be seperate from the car loom? as im tempted not to go for either of these engines if i have to get a wiring loom for the whole car and try and work out what feeds the engine! any help would be great cheers

[Guest turbo]

if you want bike carbs and you should, you will have to go down the route of after market ecu etc.

the cars ecu is only set up for its own application.

lots of the lads here have both these engines in and working well so lots of help available.

16 valve is quite a benefit.

[Bob Tucker]

The dizzy, ECU module, coil & wiring harness from an early 8v Astra fits the 16V XE & works perfectly well.

Does not have a perfect advance curve below 3500 revs...but who cares

 

Bit hard to find now & therefore getting pricey, but a verysimple answer.

Bob

[st3v3nw]

It has to be a red top. Get yourself a megajolt and it hardly needs any wiring up. None of the original loom or ECU are needed. You will see far greater gains than either of the ford engines and the redtop is a strong engine that won't need any strengthening until you get to 250bhp. Standard engine on carbs will see 185bhp and the megajolt will give you a really nice power curve due to the acurate timing.

[Guest dougie]

hey there guys, ive just ordered my self a brand new zero superspec kit (just gotta wait 6 weeks before i can get it!) but i want to put a fairly decent engine in it, ive done alot of work with capris so im fairly familiar with the pinto engine and ive got 3 options really and i wanted some advice! i can either go 3 ways really, im currently building an unleaded pinto engine which is standard apart from ive taken 40 thou off the head, putting a decent cam in it, running a thinner head gasket and running it EFI, thing is the engine will still be 25 years old and im wanting more power. so im looking at either the 2.0 zetec or red top engine, im going more to wards the red top engine but i wanted to know, if i bought one of these engines and run motor bike carbs on it would i still need the ECU and wiring loom for the engine? if i do need the wiring loom will this (for either of the engines) be seperate from the car loom? as im tempted not to go for either of these engines if i have to get a wiring loom for the whole car and try and work out what feeds the engine! any help would be great cheers

 

 

 

hi there i have just ordered my self a new zero kit

 

i have picked up a nice ford sierra with a 2.0 l dohc eng in it this eng has a injection on it . but u can pick up a set of carbs for them i got my from a scrap yard

the eng set up is a bit more work to fit in the car bur robin hood have all the parts u will need do it and the is no need to do any of the electric work with a ecu and there is lots of dohc eng about more modern eng and parts are more available the old pintos are hard work to get parts ever one and is dog are putting them in kit cars so price for parts go up and ever eng u find have high miles on them the dohc eng i picked up only had 54k on it

 

hope this will help

 

dougie

 

if u need any more help give me a call

i am new to this 2 but 2 head are better than 1

01254703432

[Guest mcramsay]

yeah ive been definatley veering towards the red top engine choice, the pinto is really too basic an engine, and as was said they are just too common, so whats the deal with the red top, what do i need for it then? obviously the bellhousing adaptor to fit to a ford gear box, what else? i still dont under stand why i would need an ecu for bike cars though? unless they are throttle bodies? also whats the deal with a megajolt? why not use the standard dizzy? and if i go down this route am i going to have to pay 500 quid for a emerald ecu and another couple of hundred getting the ecu mapped?

[agent_zed]

This ECU is not for the carbs its for the timing. Most modern injection engines don't have a distributor as its all controlled electronically. They do away with the old coil arrangement and have either a coil pack that is electronically distributed, 2 coil packs that work on a wasted spark idea(sparks on both power and exhaust stroke) or a coil pack for each plug.

 

the megajolt etc are just aftermarket ecu's to control the spark by using a trigger wheel to work out where TDC is and spark accordingly. Fancier ones also do fuel if you are using an injection system.

 

 

From the posts above it seems as though the redtop has the holes for a dizzy (if you can find one) in which case you wont need an ecu if you are running bike carbs. dizzy does the electrics carbs do the fueling.

 

hth

[Guest mcramsay]

that clears things up a treat! definatley going to go red top then! for those who went red top can you tell me any major problems you came across? ie does the engine fit nicley or do you have to do a bit of frame adjustment? do you have to change the sump to fit a rear wheel drive box on and also what about clutches? as its going to be a mix between ford and vauxhall parts. and the last thing, do GBS do the engine mounts for the red top or do you have to make your own?

[Bob Tucker]

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!!

 

Make sure you have an answer for all the XE issues before you start, there are lots, but they can all be overcome, just dont go in blind.

The dizzy fitted to later XEs is just a trigger mechanism, for the complex ECU, it has NO advance mechanism in it..

IT WONT WORK ON ITS OWN.

 

The sump may not fit the chassis. I had to cut out the cross tube on my sliding pillar chassis.

I couldnt find one anywhere else so went to SBD with a bulging wallet.

Bellhousing came from Rally Design. Other companies (A-Frame engineering) do the same one.

SBD supply one but dearer..

Clutch (for the flat flywheel) is a standard Astra cover with a "Diesel Transit" driven plate.

Make sure your factor can measure the plate, not all diesel transit plates are the same. I had several suggestions but they wouldnt fit..

Brake pedals may not fit....the carbs are on the drivers side. I went for a floor mounted one.

Exhaust manifold. You can cut & shut a standard one...see Big Jims write up.

Gearbox has to move forward. The propshaft may then be too short.

Remove the water takeoff at the rear of the head, drill & tap it & fit a 1/2 inch BSP plug

XE carb manifold many places sell them Steve (Bossman) cut a standard one down & fitted bike carbs.

Engine mounts:- youre on your own...line up th engine, box etx them measure carefully.

There is VERY little space above the engien at the front.

Engine rubber mounts...I'm using Land Rover ones now...the Jag ones I had previously split after 4k miles.

 

This wont be a full list....

 

But the engine makes it all worth while....

Bob

[Andy Cook]

Give GBS a ring and tell them which engine you plan to fit they can then advise you on what chassis mods you will need and build the chassis to suit.

As mentioned the only problem areas may be the plough tube and the pedal box.

 

Do your research before you commit. The redtop is both a little harder to fit and possibly more expensive than the zetec due to the bellhousing and clutch arrangement.

 

 

Here’s some good reading material.

 

http://nw.rhocar.org/engineswop.htm

 

http://westfield-world.com/xeinstall.html

 

http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Main.htm

 

 

The redtop is a great engine; you won’t look back once you’ve got it going.

 

 

Andy

[Guest yokel]

Red top! only ask one or two questions at a time, at my age I have trouble keeping up!

come and try mine, red top on 45 throttle bodies and emerald, you won't be disappointed! if you want more info on Zero/redtop drop me a pm.

 

Tony