Absolute Beginner!

[Guest LTD]

Hi, can anyone help an absolute beginner choose the right car (7 type)?

I don't want to build a car, just buy a well cared for used one.

 

For many many years I have doted over the early Marcos cars (sorry!), suddenly brought to a grinding halt by my recent visit to Newark where I was totally overwhelmed by the sheer amount of 7's around.

In little-to-no-time at all I found myself getting more and more drawn into the various enclosures, finally ending up at the Robin Hood corner. From that moment on I was smitten and all I can find myself doing now is scouring the mags for a 7!!!

So, if I can be forgiven for my years of Marcosing, can anyone clue me up as to what car to buy to suit my needs?

 

OK, firstly - I don't need a track spec car, just something relatively new with some degree of comfort - is that possible, the comfort bit I mean?

My budget is quite low, around £4500 tops.

Typical of what I like is one I have seen in this month's KitCar magazine ((June 03 page 157 and 161) - it's a Robin Hood Exmo 2.0 EFI (what's EFI stand for?), Bentley blue/silver, price £3900 ono.

 

Another I have seen has a stainless steel chassis - something that really appeals to me as I would intend keeping the car for a long time. Can anyone tell me if this is a one-off or if all RH's have this as standard? Also, one is stated as having a stainless steel 'monocoque' chassis.. what is that???

 

Ok, a few more questions if I may.

 

Why is there such a variation in price for similar age cars - i.e, £2500 up to £12000 and some even more? Obviously some fit really expensive engines etc - I realise that, but is that all there is in it???

 

I notice many of these cars are very low mileage - why is this? Why do people not seem to keep them for long after having gone to all the trouble of building them, only to sell them on so quickly?

 

Which engine? I see many have the Pinto engine - is this for any special reason?

Some show the Zetec engine, some show X-flow engines... what's the advantage of any of these please? My knowledge of engines is fairly (very) limited to anything post '70's really, so please be patient!

One such engine that fascinated me (for it's sheer style in the car) was what I think might have been a Zetec (Ford???) - it seemed to have, what I can only describe as looking like two very slim like rocker covers side by side. For the life of me I cannot remember the name now, though it did strike me as being peculiar to the car (which I think was a Tiger). It could have been Toyota engine, but I can't be sure of that now - or possibly Fiat. I remember thinking what a strange choice of engine brand to use.

 

Heater? Is it un-cool to ask if many of these cars do actually have heaters?

 

Insurance, road tax etc. Does the insurance come into the classic car catagory, or is it a higher risk bracket for 7's, being more sporty?

Some cars state 'low road tax'... what does that mean, and why?

 

Good buy vs bad buy... How do I know a well built car from a poorly built one, apart from the obvious glaring points? My knowledge of cars and all things mechanical is good in general, it's just the later stuff that I am out of touch with. Apparently anyone can build one of these so there must be some rough stuff out there, can anyone tell me what to look out for - what to avoid basically? I've read some bits relating to 'straightening out the car' etc.. sounds daunting to the uninitiated new buyer.

 

Following on from that - if other brand names are allowed to be mentioned on here, are there any of the 'lower-cost' manufactures to avoid from a quality build point of view? I have to confess to narrowing it down to the RH and possibly the Tiger cars myself, but this is only on a week's research.

 

Ok, I think that's about it... thank God I hear you say! There will, no doubt be things I've missed here, but that's all I can think of for now.

 

Any help at all would be appreciated.

With thanks,

Pete

[Mitch]

Hi Pete

Try this link to the old forum where it discribes the differances in the Robinhoods

this should give you some insight into the different cars.

Most Robinhoods are Sierra based and use the rear axle,gearbox and engine from these, for you're money you should get a half decent 2.0ltr motor.

where are you? there maybe a local meet which you could attend and find out more.

HTH

Mitch

woops nearly forgot the link

http://www.rhocar.org/aboutcartypes.shtml

[Mat-Moo]

Welcome to the boards Pete - Tis a HUGE question your asking here to be honest and no doubt our answers will be a bit biased! The link in the previous post will show you several of the cars RHE have produced (look at my sig pic, that's a monoquoce chassis, all folded sheets rather than a chassis with sheets attached). RHE cars are at the "Budget" end of the market and have to be honest ruled it for a while, but over the last 6-18months other manufacturers have launched there own budget cars as well. You best bet is to buy a few kit car mags, and find a few other sites, including http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/ Mostly builders building the car from scratch based on the "Build your own sportscar for £250", they also have a couple of sub forums for "Luego", "MK indy" and the "Tiger Avon" all of those being manufacturer kits. RHE stuff does tend to take a bit of a bashing, and if you ask in other forums no doubt you will probably get told to stay well clear. Really depends on what you want to use the car for, personally for me it's a Sunday cruiser, if I can get time off the kids, so it doesn't bother me that it's not the lightest in it's category. Other people will say that the RHE is also poor quality, while I can't say it's the best I've seen, I've never had a real issue for the money I've spent, and I've heard of Westfield owners complain at some of the fit of items... but again this is just what I've heard and I'm trying to give you a fiar opinion! Personally I loved mine and was real upset when it went, hence why I'm building another (money issues!).

 

My budget is quite low, around £4500 tops.

Typical of what I like is one I have seen in this month's KitCar magazine ((June 03 page 157 and 161) - it's a Robin Hood Exmo 2.0 EFI (what's EFI stand for?), Bentley blue/silver, price £3900 ono.

EFI is just an injection system, the old pinto is normally just carb driven. I've seen in Kit Car magazine the car you are talking about and it looked quite nice, but I don't believe I've ever seen it in person so can't comment any more. The Exmo was regarded by some as a bit of a strange breed of 7's as it has quite a strange front suspension setup, however the long swept wings cover it quite well, so it shouldn't be an issue.

 

Another I have seen has a stainless steel chassis - something that really appeals to me as I would intend keeping the car for a long time. Can anyone tell me if this is a one-off or if all RH's have this as standard? Also, one is stated as having a stainless steel 'monocoque' chassis.. what is that???

 

RHE have been doing Stainless for ages, I would guess that 75% of RH's are SS and not mild steel/painted (as is the one you are looking at)

 

I see many have the Pinto engine - is this for any special reason?

Most the RH's from the Exmo model onwards where based on a single donor car... the Sierra, which in 80% of cases contain a Pinto engine, so most cars have the pinto block in them.

 

Heater? Is it un-cool to ask if many of these cars do actually have heaters?

Well I had one in mine, but in the middle of winter you could barely feel it!

 

Insurance, road tax etc. Does the insurance come into the classic car catagory, or is it a higher risk bracket for 7's, being more sporty?

Road tax will be based on the engine, most these cars have a 1600+ engine so you gonna be in the high tax bracket for road tac... however quite a few owners only pay for 6 months and leave it off the road for 6 months (filling in sorn of course!). Insurance will be based on age etc. as a 30year old when I had my 2l Exmo, it cost me about £130 a year fully comp, but limited to 5000miles.

 

Good buy vs bad buy... How do I know a well built car from a poorly built one, apart from the obvious glaring points? My knowledge of cars and all things mechanical is good in general, it's just the later stuff that I am out of touch with. Apparently anyone can build one of these so there must be some rough stuff out there, can anyone tell me what to look out for - what to avoid basically? I've read some bits relating to 'straightening out the car' etc.. sounds daunting to the uninitiated new buyer.

Hard to say to be honest, I would look around and make sure the basics have been done properly, this would include a nice clean engine and if possible seeing receipts for bits that should be done on a basic engine overhaul. ALso cehck the braking components out, personally I think these should always be renewed but again each to his own. At the end of the day it's not going to cost you a fortune to put that much right, however it will obviously require a bit of time!

 

PHEW - I hope this helps a bit!

[Guest daveg]

Hi Pete

 

For £4500 you should get a good car. There were various options when buying the kit from RHE, I picked stainless chassis and mild steel panels because I want a chassis that wouldn't rot and I want to play with paint

 

The price variation is a good question....£12,000 for a RHE car! well for that you would expect something unbelievable. My kit costs around £2100 plus 400 for paint plus other parts no brought yet, I expect it will cost me £4000 to build a reasonable nothing special car.

 

Ignor milage on kit cars...it mean nothing at all. A kit of bits will have no common mileage!

 

Pinto is the engine the kit was designed for, thats why most are pinto. Zetec is modern (complicated), x flow is older than pinto in design. Any engine will do...

 

Heater will only work with a top on. These cars are not really for 365 days use...its a second car for boys toys (duck head down while flak is returned)

 

Insurance....get a quote before you buy...I have heard of quotes from 95 - 1000 for fully comp.

 

Good/bad car....use you eyes...is it well built, do panels look right, is the engine bay well laid out (nice neat P clips for fuel/brake lines)...no

Apparently anyone can build one of these

no no...you need dedication to build a RHE car. Its not a complete kit that has everything supplied. A good car requires care and dedication.

 

'straightening out the car'

just mean putting things how you want them. It shouldn't mean stripping the whole car and rebuilding it. If you need to do a total strip and rebuild then you might as well buy a kit!

 

I won't say avoid anything...even a low cost car can be built well. The RHE 2b chassis is very good quality IMHO. But the quality of the final car depends on the builder. Westfields, Caterhams and Tigers are available ready built as far as I know RHE never supplied complete cars but if they did they would cost a lot. Its the man hours that push the cost up. I am building for a hobby, not because I want a car to drive.

 

Phew, longest answer I have ever given and its not comprehensive hope it helps. If you ask shorter questions you will get more response

 

Dave

[Guest LTD]

Hi Mitch, hi Mat.

Thanks very much for the detailed report Mat, and to you Mitch for the sugestion of that link - the one question I forgot to put on my 'list' was in reference to all the different models, so that should cover it!

I'm in north Lincolnshire now by the way, a south Londoner done a bunk!

 

I think you just about covered everything of importance there Mat, thanks for taking so much time over that.

Yes, it was a huge question but from a novice point of view, had to be asked somewhere along the line, so better out than in - as they say!

 

It's funny you should say Mat, that the RHE take a bit of a bashing regarding being somewhat 'low-end' etc, but it was the one area which I felt comfortable in. I didn't speak to anyone, bur everyone seemed to be friendly and hanging out together in a sort of 'club' athmosphere, besides which, I preferred the outward appearance of the cars over all the others, they just appealed to me in general I suppose.

Whether this was just coincidence or whatever, it was this corner that finally brought me here.

 

Anyway, just one thing Mat, regarding the stainless steel chassis..

You mention the car I'm looking at (Bently blue/silver etc) - can I just confirm you mean this particular car is one of the remaining 25% that does NOT have the stainless steel chassis... did I read you right there???

Just my luck, I really fancied the idea of a stainless!

 

Ok, basically I think I've got a lot of 'learning' to do. It's funny, when you first see all these cars lined up and as a newbie, they all look similar, then, when you start to get into it a bit all sorts of differences appear, and appear - and appear...hmmm.

Oh well, 'ere we go, gonna check out that old web-link now!

 

Thanks again guys, no doubt I'll be back for more, though not quite so lengthy next time, so don't disappear!

For now...

Pete

[Guest LTD]

Hi Dave, Wow!, you guys are helpful!

Thanks for another detailed reply, more bits answered.. -getting there!

 

Sorry about the 'anyone can build' bit - it wasn't actually meant like that, I should have said 'anyone can legally build one of these cars' etc, I guess.

 

Yes, I was generalising amongst the various companies when I gave a top figure of £12000, I now know a bit more and realise that RH's are probably the price range I wanna be in. If I can get a decent RH for £4500 I'll be more than happy.

I really only want a 'cruiser' anyway with a bit added of fun on top.

I too like to play with paint, so this seems just the job!

 

You've unwittingly answered one unasked question... you say you build for a hobby, that says a lot. I did actually wonder if anyone did this and deducted this just HAD to be so, with all the builders out there and the seemingly quick move-on rate.

 

Thanks for all the advice.

Ant next posts WILL be shorter now!

Pete

[Mat-Moo]

I preferred the outward appearance of the cars over all the others, they just appealed to me in general I suppose.

That's exactly the same reason I bought, I prefered the style/shapig of this over the other budgets when I bought back in 96!

 

Anyway, just one thing Mat, regarding the stainless steel chassis..

You mention the car I'm looking at (Bently blue/silver etc) - can I just confirm you mean this particular car is one of the remaining 25% that does NOT have the stainless steel chassis... did I read you right there???

Just my luck, I really fancied the idea of a stainless!

Yes - I would say that it was the same as my old one being a zintec kit http://www.rhocar.org/memberzcarz/Matth...xmo/MatExmo.htm (the one you are looking at have a V paint job?)

[Guest Andy Rathbone]

Hi pete,

i was in the same situ' as you in early 2000, i wanted a fast car that i could insure at 21, i'm now 24 and its still not on the road but never mind hey. Warnings warnings warnings. how tall are you and if you dont mind me being a little personal if you are more than about 10 stone a normal caterham is out, the cockpit on them is tight to say the least and as for height any thing above 6ft and its above the windscreen, so before you buy try it!!! westies can be tight too, as well as tiger. My experience was at the shows DONT TOUCH CUSTOMER CAR, rhe on the other hand, climb all over it lift the bonnet have a twiddle with it. the cockpit is nice and big in the 2B (i dont know about the rest).

 

as for tiger well. the car was small!! and i went to visit the factory, it wasent anything special!! and to be honest the imppresion i got was the bloke was there just to take you money and plenty of it!! and when the subject of Locost was mentioned the idea was shunned very sternly, but when the question was put to Richard he just gave me a price list of the bits he supplies, thats why i bought a 2B. for all the stick people give Richard, he is not a bad bloke.

hope this helps

 

(Edited - Mick M - RHOCaR - 09.07.03)

[Jon Bradbury]

Briefly...:

 

I recommend you hold on and get a fully stainless (chassis / body) 2B with front wishbone suspension and a 2 litre Pinto engine. There are usually loads for sale (its got to be the most common kit car out there) and with your budget you'll easily find one. I personally don't like the exmo because it has (I think) sliding pillar suspension which is not very good at all (ask Matt, he is putting wishbones on his IIRC).

 

As per the other posts, check quality of build first, then quality of finish. A mild steel hassis will probably have rust somewhere where you cannot see it - I'd advise you to leave well alone.

 

You can afford the best (a fully stainless 2b), so why settle for less?

[Guest 2BBoulton]

I managed to buy a very well built 2B for under £4000. It was complete and only needed the wet weather gear to be fitted which didn't take long.

 

I chose the 2B due to the styling and the full size seats (6'2" and 13stone), also there is plenty of foot room near the pedals (Size 11 feet). The ride quality is supurb and was fine for long distances (much better than the minis I used to own).

 

I wouldn't be too put off if the chassis isn't stainless steel, every day production cars don't use stainless and they last long enough. The wall thickness is on par or better than that of the modern cars. Provided you look after it, it will look after you.

 

Although I sold it recently (much regreted) I would certainly buy another one again. Although you can pick up a robin Hood for little money a well built example looks the muts nuts and to the untrained eye is worth as much as the super expensive kits.

 

When buying buy the fastest one you can afford, I bought a 1.8 thinking that power didn't matter but when trying to keep up with my mates 2.1 tuned kit all I could think of was how to afford a new engine.

 

good luck with whatever you get,

 

Bruce

[Big Jim]

Robin Hood has been building 7 type cars now for some years, it seems that every couple of years RS will try out a 'new' model, the present one is the wishbone 2B (OK, guys, before you throw the brochures at me, I don't count his £7995 Rover engined ones, wrong price bracket!) each model has it's problems that we / you as a Hoodie will improve on, and each model had some very good points. It's also true that the general build quality of the cars has improved since SVA came in, but there are still an awfull lot of nice earlier cars around, in fact I saw one at Newark that a couple of years ago sold for £7500 (mark 2, monocoque) still just as nice and with only 9000 miles on the clock.

If you are buying one already built, I would suggest looking at as many as possible and find out the pro's & con's about the various models. I have seen good cars sold for as little as £2200, and prices over £5000 on poor ones. The owners who are selling their cars tend to depreciate the market to an extent. There is a belief that ANY Robin Hood that is on the road, with a good MOT, should not be sold for less than £4000.

 

Have fun looking.

[Guest LTD]

Hi again everybody, I've just logged on and found yet more help and advce.

Too much now to reply to every bit in detail but please be assured I'm taking it all in! I take it I am about to become a 'Hoodie'???? I like that!

 

Regarding the Exmo having a V paint job Mat.. yes, it does I think.

Thanks for the diary, by the way.

 

Right, just off back to digest all of this - I think something else has just popped up, even while I'm replying to this lot!

 

Thanks again, and yes, I have just learnt how to use the smilies!

Pete

[swan]

hellp pete,

 

you mentioned in your mammoth first message that you were concerned by the quite small amount of miles that a lot of the cars you had looked at had clocked up. from what I can gather people dont tend to sell them on that quickly, but it ceratinly surprised us how little miles we did in our first year. We went the same route as you and bought a completed car for less than three and a half thousand quid just over a year ago, and have had nothing but fun from it. (ok the trip to newark was a one off!) nothing has ever gone wrong thats needed it going to a garage, and like you we certainly arent that mechanically minded.

we sorted out our first years insurance with a limit of 5 thousand miles and even with the excitement of finally getting a car, it didnt cover more than 2 thousand miles in the first year. if we'd covered trips like le mans, or some of the shows down south then it would have been higher, but the low mileage you see is probably more due to the english weather rather than people not wanting to keep the car for very long.

(as a write this the rain is into about its 13th consecutive hour!)

also from what I can gather this building bug is quite addictive and several builders only decide to sell because they want to get their hands dirty again.

as for buying second hand, someone told us when we were looking that if there was anything that looked dodgy, or bodged on the outside of the car where it was really visible to leave well alone! if theres something as obvious as that on the outside, who knows what the hidden stuff is like?

when it comes to information, you've certainly come to right place though, these messages boards contain pretty much everything, and you're right about the club stand, it is the friendliest as well as the biggest at the shows. make sure that you make yourself known at the next show, you could even buy some club gear, and join the gang!

 

paul

[Guest LTD]

Yes, that's very true Paul, regarding the low mileage bit. In fact, I'm always surprised at how little I actually do each year these days in my own car, let alone a RH!

 

I've seen a couple of cars I like, though unfortunately both over my budget, but I've now decided (through knowledge gained through this site) to hang on till the next event - Harrogate I believe, for me - to take a now more subjective look at the cars and perhaps check out something there, if I see anything I like.

I'd definitely make myself known to the people that have helped, who I'm sure would give me advice now.. nods and winks in the right places etc!

 

There were a couple of cars there at Newark that caught my eye, but it was on that very day I got my first taster and daren't look twice through fear of buying!

 

I'd thought of putting a message on the board to see if there's anyone in the Lincolnshire area willing to let me take a closer look at their car. There's got to be a 'hands-on' point sooner or later to get the real feel of what it's all about.

I obviously wouldn't expect anyone to let me actually drive their car, but a first hand personal view would go a long way, rather than just breezing past show cars.

 

Ok Paul, hope the weather takes a turn for the better, it must be frustrating not being able to drive your car for 13 hrs!

Thanks for the advice.

Pete

[Guest mickmellors]

Pete

 

I'm sure if you get yourself along to on of the monthly Area Meetings someone will let you ride shotgun.

 

Give the Lincs Area Sec (Chris Addlesee) a ring and find out where their next meeting will be held - I will send his phone number to you by personal message.

 

Guests are always welcome and the vast majority join our Club - even before ordering the kit ! !

 

In fact we have quite a few in the Club who dont have a Robin Hood at all ! ! They just enjoy the social gatherings at Shows and other local events. Come to some and see what I mean.

 

Cheers

 

Mick