Hello And A Question About Donar Cars

[Guest stezie]

Hi all. This is my first post as I am interested in buying a Kit car.. Hopefully I have this in the correct thread..

 

I know a lot of the donor cars are the sierra with the odd GM engine used.

 

But how flexible is it to use alternative cars as donors for the build?

 

 

I would be interested in buying a crashed Lexus IS200 (roughly same width as sierra on parkers website), or even source the Jap Toyota Altezza wit the more powerful engine.

 

 

Is it possible to mount the Rear Diff, hubs, engine and gearbox from a car like this or does the Robin hood (and most other kit cars) based around the ford running gear only.

 

Thanks for any info. Stephen.

[richyb66]

While a few non-Ford engines and gearboxes can and are used, it doesn't make much sense using non Sierra components for the suspension. The kits are designed with these parts in mind and using something different will just create a load of extra work for no real gain.

 

The kits can be taxing enough to build even when completely Sierra based so there's probably a lot to be said to sticking to this formula at least to get the thing on the road and then make any changes later. There is a case that putting in your preferred engine from the word go is easier but then there's also a greater chance you'll hit snags, get bored and never get it finished. Plenty of kits end up as un-finished projects, if you stick with a tried and tested combination there will always be someone on here who can help when you hit some snags (which you will).

 

Remember also that the Sierra also has plenty of different chassis options like rear discs, lsd's, bigger front discs - most of which are bolt on changes should you wish to upgrade later. Stick with a tried and tested conbination to start with, something that'll pass IVA, not have a Q plate and will actually get on the road.

 

If you're still interested, post up your location, get to a local meet and see some people in your area. Seeing other cars give me extra enthusiasm to get mine finished and it's nice to discuss issues with like minded people.

 

(all this free advise from the man who's kit progress is a little slow to say the least).

[Guest stezie]

Im in Northern Ireland. So quite a bit away.. The main concern that I have is that there is next to no sierras left in the local papers for sale and was thinking on what alternatives are available to use. Any sierras that do show up are expensive as they are enthusiast owned. Any cheap ones have been rallied down back roads or disposed already.

 

Also I have always been a Jap fan, due to reliability, etc.

 

I seen a damaged Toyota Altezza in Southern Ireland for sale for less than 1.5kstg , 220BHP and LSD, disc brakes, etc.

 

When you say Plenty of kits end up as unfinished projects, where would you find these for sale?

 

I wouldnt mind buying a chassis at cheap money and then play with that to get the Toyota gear to fit. If some thing needs to be cut, then I wouldnt be doing it to an expensive new shell.. If its doesnt go to plan and its a complete write off, then Ill sell the kit again. you know where one can source a chassis?

[Joel]

My twopenneth...

 

Anything can be done with enough time, money and skill, but as Rich says it's easiest to build a kit as it was intended in the first place.

 

Having said that, if I had my time again I would have built my first kit as standard for the experience, then built a second kit how I actually wanted it, rather than trying to upgrade the original. For me the car ends up with too many battle scars and ultimately compromised when you start chopping and changing from the original build spec.

 

So a happy medium for you might be to look at other kit manufacturers (ducks for cover ), specifically those that use BMW donors, as you get a vast range of specs to chose from. Even a basic 1800cc 3-series gives you more power, better brakes, etc than a Sierra, for the same kind of donor money. And you can go right up to M3 spec if you want

[Guest Spencer Griffiths]

I agree that you will find it a nightmare to try and fit a non Sierra donor package into the Zero. If you are find it tricky getting a Sierra remember that GBS have over 200 donor cars all stripped with the log books ready to go. As far as reliability goes if you get a new crated Zetec then its all brand new, or if you go the older route then how reliable it is will be down to how much work you put into rebuilding or maintaining the engime. Remember the car is only about 500kg so a 220BHP engine will work out at 440bhp per ton, hope you have some spare pants! I think you will be really pleased if you got a Zero with a new Zetec and throtle bodies.

 

Regards

 

Spencer

[Guest stezie]

So GBS have the entire stock of sierras held to ransom! Ha ha !!!

 

yeah I like a good scare! I have got hooked on track days recently and suppose i want more speed! lol

 

I see a westfield on ebay and there is a honda s2000 engine strapped in it. That got me thinking.

 

A crashed s2000 is still big money for a donar and an IS200/Altezza is cheap enough for a donar when bought damaged.

 

I still want a jap powered car! every europen car I have ever owned has failed on me big time. Any jap car I have had, always got me home.

 

Would any one have a frame repair chart for a Zero or sierra so that i can compare measurments from that to the is200 engine and gearbox mounting point dimensions. the chances of them being very similar is slim but id like to know..

 

 

And I take on board all the comments about not messing about with the car and stick to what is designed for, but I like a good challenge! lol

[Guest Spencer Griffiths]

Technically Ford is American!

[Guest gixerboy600]

Hi,

 

I know GBS have custom made several chassis to accept different donor, example BMW 3 series!

 

Have you asked GBS if they can offer you a solution ????

 

Cheers

 

John

[Guest mcramsay]

i honestly think this would be far too much trouble than its worth. as a happy compromise i would use the sierra diff, driveshafts, rear hubs and front hubs and then do what you want with the engine. if you can get an engine you can bolt up to a type 9 then quids in, if not you will have to find an engine gearbox combination that will fit, then fabricate mounts, have a custom length prop made and then try to get the engine to fit. if you want to use all the bits from a donor car it woudl be easyer to design the chassis from scratch. rather than cut and weld in new mounts for a solution that hasnt even been proven to work.

[Guest stezie]

Technically Ford is American!

 

Ah ok.. Granted... An I would admit that I owned a ST170 5 years ago for 8 months and it didnt let me down..

Would one of these engines mount up ok to the sierra running gear?

 

Hi,

 

I know GBS have custom made several chassis to accept different donor, example BMW 3 series!

 

Have you asked GBS if they can offer you a solution ????

 

Cheers

 

John

 

I was gonna email them, but wanted to see what peoples view are on this task, and possibly see if any one has come across this before..

 

i honestly think this would be far too much trouble than its worth. as a happy compromise i would use the sierra diff, driveshafts, rear hubs and front hubs and then do what you want with the engine. if you can get an engine you can bolt up to a type 9 then quids in, if not you will have to find an engine gearbox combination that will fit, then fabricate mounts, have a custom length prop made and then try to get the engine to fit. if you want to use all the bits from a donor car it woudl be easyer to design the chassis from scratch. rather than cut and weld in new mounts for a solution that hasnt even been proven to work.

 

This is the ebay add with the s2000 Westy..

s2000 Westy

 

its got the s2000 engine and gearbox tied up to the sierra rear axle.. Im sure the prop shaft needed some fancy engineering.

 

Here is the spec in case the add goes down. - Im sure the performance is stunning!

 

 

REGISTERED SEPT 09 (59PLATE) WESTFIELD SEIW WITH HONDA S2000 ENGINE AND 6 SPEED GEARBOX.

 

 

AUDI IBIS WHITE CARBON FIBRE WRAPPED.

 

racetec engine management system and engine loom

light weight flywheel

one peice prop shaft

r.e.d. dry sump system

roy millington dry sump tank

roy millington oil catch tank

braided oil hoses throughout

remote oil filter

4.3 L.S.D. 71/2 sierra cosworth diff with quaife internals,

uprated sierra cosworth rear drive shafts,

sierra cosworth rear brake calipers

mintex 1144 rear pads,

westfield/caterham rear anti roll bar

escort cosworth group a high pressure fuel pump,

raceline high flow alloy radiator

black samco water hoses throughout

gaz adjustable coil overs all round

willwood 4 pot front calipers

mintex 1144 front pads

simpson exhausts full exhaust system (bonnet exit and repackable silencer)

westfield padded race seats

westfield 4 point harnesses

standard westfield dash and switches

full white dail set from westfield,

genuine honda s2000 starter button

genuine honda s2000 6 speed alloy gear knob,

alloy front up rights

alloy front hubs

alloy rear up rights

alloy rear hubs

r.a.c. roll bar

carbon fibre 1 peice boot cover

westfield areoscreen

westfield v8 bonnet

l.e.d. rear lights including fog and reverse

carbon effect rear light holders

carbon effect rear stone guards

carbon effect wing mirrors (gsxr type)

toyo r 888 tyres.

[Guest Spencer Griffiths]

When I was at the factory on Friday they were fitting a Ford Durateq 2.0 in a Zero. 180bhp standard, 220 with tuning. Also Richard has talked about getting the 2.5L Ford V5 lump from the ST as Ford are changing engines and have a lot he can buy crated.

 

Cheers

 

Spencer

[Guest ethanicus]

If you want a Jap lump, why don't you put a bike engine in?

[Longboarder]

s2000 engine and gearbox

4.3 L.S.D. 71/2 sierra cosworth diff with quaife internals

I wonder how the new registration ties in along with the 'you are allowed one used major component refurbished to as new condition' to get a current year reg? Would that be the diff, the engine or the gearbox then?

 

If you want to use a specific car that is not catered for by any manufacturer then you may have to design and build the chassis yourself. Current mainstream kit sevens use mostly sierra, cortina, MX5 or BMW parts. A lot of work has gone into constructing suspension parts to fit these donor hub carriers onto the chassis, mount given engines, gearboxes and diffs, steering components, electrics etc.

 

Why reinvent the wheel. The kit car way is to use mainstream kit with it's intended donor parts and add whatever engine to it that you want. And yes, the ST170 engine bolts straight on to a type 9 or MT75 gearbox.

 

Nigel

[Guest gdc]

just to add to the mix

i have an st 170 mated to a type9 in a lightweight soon to be fitted to a zero.

 

graham

[David S]

I wonder how the new registration ties in along with the 'you are allowed one used major component refurbished to as new condition' to get a current year reg? Would that be the diff, the engine or the gearbox then?

The way Richard explained it to me (and Jim at Tiger Racing said the same), the one major component can be the "drivetrain' and in that they include the gearbox, diff and halfshafts. If you then put in a new Engine and have all the other parts new, you should qualify for a current registration, which is what GBS did with the current 60 plated demonstrator.

 

As for donor cars, GBS do have a large stock of old Sierras and a donor pack is £500. They can even get it all shot blasted and cleaned up for you (for a small price) although it is not "refurbished" as such, but it looks like it is.