Nervous First Start

[Snapperpaul]

I bought the Pinto over a year ago and have dry stored it ever since, checked it all over before putting it in the car late last year and last weekend prepaired it for its first start for a while.

It has all the required fluids, plugs out and light oil straight down the plug holes, cam covered with a good spray of oil.

Oil pressure light connected and oil pressure gauge connected.

This weekend, no fuel or spark, plugs out and cranked it over for a few seconds, checked for leaks, corrected one small water leak. Topped up water and anti freeze, checked oil level then cranked a bit longer.

I don't want to fire it up until i see the oil pressure gauge move and /or the light go out but even with a 30 second cranking the gauge does not seem to move off the stop.

 

 

This is not a brand new engine and has been run for 1,100 mile since conversion to 2.1, it was also seen with 65psi hot.

 

The only difference from the spec when bought is a short sump.

 

What is my next move?

[ibrooks]

Did you half fill the filter when you fitted it? and how long was it until you then tried to start it? You should see the light go out and get measurable pressure on cranking and you are right to not actually fire it until you do.

 

First I'd be trying to make certain the oil pump is primed. A good squirt of oil down the centre of the hole where the filter screws on should do it (or a good amount of oil in the filter running down there when you screw it on). Hopefully this will do the job.

 

Second - if you remove the dizzy (careful not to allow the oil pump drive to come with it). You can now see the hexagonal driveshaft for the oil pump and can stick a socket on the end of it with an extension which you can drive with a drill. This should get pressure without the engine having to spin. Be very careful not to drop anything down the hole whilst you are doing this as it's a pain of a job to retreive it.

An alternative method of doing this is to remove the timing belt and spin the auxiliary shaft with something (this will spin both dizzy and oil pump whilst leaving the rest of the engine stationary but be aware you'll also be running the fuel pump if it's a carb one).

 

If this lot doesn't see pressure we're getting into dismantling things. I've seen the oil pickup pipe hard against the bottom of the sump and not able to draw any oil (in real life as well as on American Hot-Rod). If the pressure relief valve is stuck open you'll get naff all pressure. Etc

 

 

Iain

[enforcer]

I know the feeling, snapper. I remember 2 cups of coffee sat staring at the engine before I finally plucked up the courage. The oil light will likely need more than a few cranks to let the pressure build up. I took off the cam belt and spun the aux shaft with a socket on a drill (mind you I didn't have a radiator at this point) - I couldn't get any oil out of the spray bar. After a few seconds of spinning the Aux shaft fast I covered myself and the engine, walls etc with oil!

 

Provided you have liberally coated the cam with lube you'll be covered for the few seconds it's going to take for the pressure to build and the oil to reach the spray bar.

 

Go for it mate. Then give it 5000 revs and dump the clutch

[baj25]

Paul, I was in the same boat about 6 weeks ago. Finally cracked as follows; (excuse cut & paste from my original post)

 

Thanks for the input chaps, I’m one happy Hoodie. Finally cracked it this morning using a bit of all the suggestions. I figured oil pressure switch tapping is directly connected to pump output (couldn’t get filter off easily), so whipped switch out and made filler system to get oil in through the hole. Took dizzy off (then read Haynes manual about how to. Probably better to read first with hindsight…..) and ran hex shaft in reverse a few times to try to back fill pump. Then ran in correct direction with electric drill and out squirted oil from spraybar. Put it all back together and ran the bugger and up came the oil pressure! Then did several victory laps of the garden (on foot, not in the car!)

One final question- the oil from the spray bar is quite creamy and frothy, something like the head on Guinness. It has been stood for best part of 2 years so is it best to change it (and filter) if it looks like this?

Many thanks again, and best wishes for the New Year.

Brian

 

 

Brian

[Snapperpaul]

Some good pointers there... will attempt to prime the pump then remove the modified distributor shaft

( i have MegaJolt so no distributor) and spin it up with socket and drill.

I will also check for oil in the filter.

I expect the oil level to drop a bit as i have an oil cooler and thermostat plumbed in, i did pre fill the oil cooler but there must be air pockets in the hoses.

Thanks for the info.

If anyone else has some advise, carry on and post it please.

[niduncan]

Are you sure that your modified distributor shaft is engaging with the auxilary shaft so that the oil pump is actually being driven. When I fitted my Megajolt I mounted the coil in place of the distributor and did not realise that the distributor shaft turns the oil pump - hence I had no oil pressure either. I had to modify the distributor shaft and re-fit it.

[Snapperpaul]

Engine has been running with modified distibutor shaft but i will check.

[Guest peter2b2002]

that creamy stuff was emulsion, oil mixed with water usally due to lots of cold running or short runs, it can block oil ways and kill the engine, one thing to look for on v8's, take off the oil filler cap and look inside , if it's creamy forget it

pete2b

[Snapperpaul]

Success we have oil presure using the drill on the oil pump drive.

There is a fair bit of air in the oil and its frothy.

New oil was put in not long ago after changing the sump for a short one.

Oil level was to top of dip stick max level after some turning of the oil pump drive this dropped to mid way.

Have topped back up to full.

Still getting airy froth seen over the cam lobes and bubbling noises from the spray bar.

Good flow of oil and whilst early after i stop spinning the pump you can see air in the oil on the dipstick, it soon settles clear.

So far no oil leaks from oil cooler take off and associated pipes or oil presure switches.

One other thought i am rotating the pump drive clockwise is this correct?

[Longboarder]

Clockwise looking down the dizzy hole is correct.

 

Air in the oil circulation may just be slowly bleeding from the cooler and filter.

You could be emptying the sump if you run it too fast on the drill. (Cold oil may be filling the cam cover and not draining back to the sump quickly enough. Oil pump is designed to do 3500 rpm when engine is doing 7000.)( Can you have cavitation in oil? )

You may have an air leak on the suction side of the pump.

 

Run the drill at about 500 rpm for a few minutes to flush the system. Let it settle overnight to de-aerate. Run again the next day at 500 rpm having checked the oil is topped up. If it's still frothy I suspect you have a suction side air leak.

 

Nigel

[Snapperpaul]

If weather is OK later today i will give it a go for a while before going to the ESSEX club meet.

[Snapperpaul]

Connected the oil pressure gauge today and got 4 bar on the gauge spinning the pump with a drill.

However i am still getting froth at the top,and lots of bubbling from the spray bar.

Any more ideas before i get ready to lift the engine and try and get the sump off?

[Grim]

The only difference from the spec when bought is a short sump.

 

There may well be a hold in the newly shortened pick up pipe, or the gasket may be missing.

[Snapperpaul]

There may well be a hold in the newly shortened pick up pipe, or the gasket may be missing.

My fear this.

 

Dave4kids had a blinding idea that i will try, Fill sump with oil to the brim to cover the pickup and the pickup to pump connection, if i spin up the pump with the drill and it stops frothing then drain and remove sump,check pickup and gasket.

[Snapperpaul]

Filled the sump with oil until it covered the pickup connection to the pump, i did this in stages to see if the pickup pipe was leaking, when the engine had 8+litres in it the pump stopped spewing out frothy oil.

Conclusion is that there is indeed a suction side air leak, probably the pickup pipe to oil pump gasket.

Solution, engine out, sump off.

Positive, change gearbox to V6 type 9 that i have in the garage. might have to shorten the prop.