The Real Cost Of Building A Kit?

[Guest gdc]

i threw in the new lightweight as an option as i like the concept .

my first 2b was bought part built on ebay for £1100.

it was found to be partly badly built!

stripped and reassembled and completed with new hood and side screens for £3600 or there abouts.

the first lightweight was built ready for sva and then the poo hit the fan and was subsiquently stripped streangthened and re built and svad and regestered with a 56 plate , the cost of the total build was arround

£11000

the current light weight was purchaced by my son in law for £1420

and the budget is arround £6000, to complete

the costs associated with building these cars vairies so much and spec vairies .

for a buget build the best way to go by far is to buy a part completed project let someone else spend the real money ,they get either fed up or nagged by her indoors ,then offer it for sale at a greatly undervalued cost.

it has been said before by wiser men than i that about 70%of all kits sold are not completed by the origonal purchacer so take advantage of this and save a lot of your hard earned.

look at the for sale item a make a judgement about the value of the purchace ballance that with the cost of a stock kit , there will have been work done wheather thats buid or just refurbishment of parts .

it all costs and adds to the total cost of the build or rebuild.

there is a hood on ebay at the moment with v6 and all running ,got to be a bargain?

 

regards graham

[chris n]

Kit cost me £3200 for the S7 Deluxe with a few options and extras back in 1993.

wouldn't like to sit and work out how much has been spent on it over the years

Think I would end up having a heart attack or the bank manager would

[Guest gdc]

and dont tell er indoors where the money went for the new bed or telly ect

[Guest paulh]

Thanks so much for your replies so far - any more advice from people would be great! So keep those opinions coming!

i think in my situation i would probably go for a part built, purely because i would have to be working on a very tight budget! I have always wanted to be able to say "i built that" and that is my sole reason for wanting to build a kit! But at the end of the day i could always get a part built bargain, finish and sell it on and build the next kit from scratch!

 

GDC, in your opinion, would someone with very little mechanical knowledge like myself find it easier to build a Lightweight from scratch rather than build/ re-build a 2b? Also, does anybody know if GBSC are actually planning to strengthen the Lightweight chassis and carry on selling them? Similarly to you, i think it's a good concept, and as one or two are passed SVA now, it's looking to me like GBSC could build strengthened versions of the chassis and start to sell them. Obviously, your the expert on this one!

 

It was a real shame i could not get to the Leicester meet last night, i was hoping to get some insight from some experienced hoodies. (Thanks Andy Spencer for the kind PM invite). I will defo try to make the March meet, see if i can't talk one of those generous chaps into viewing one or two part builts with me and make sure i'm not buying a mule!

 

Once again, wonderful advice as normal, HUGE thanks to everyone.

Edited March 1, 2007 by paulh

[Guest ScotMac]

I am a bit biased, but i definitely like the l/w. Full tubular welded wishbone suspension front and rear, lightweight aluminum monocoque, and as has been said, doing the extra strengthening upfront (as the chassis is put together) is much easier than a retrovit. I don't think *either* car is easy, but as Graham said, the l/w is probably a bit easier (he's the expert...working on your 4th RH Graham?).

 

The l/w kit is fairly complete, and i bet you can get a deal from RH for it.

 

-Scot

[Guest timswait]

I don't like the lightweight as a concept. Aluminium monocoque is a tricky construction method. Anyone with a bit of basic engineering knowledge can design a steel spaceframe which will be perfectly servicable. Aluminuim monocoque demands to be designed properly, FE modelling, full scale testing and a good understanding of the loading cycles and fatigue response of the stucture are essential. To my mind aluminium monocoque is the way to go for mid to high end performance cars (Audi, Lotus, Jaguar), not for small companies who can't aford to do the testing, and certainly not as the cheapest model in the range. Also I don't think anyone's ever found out what alloy Robin Hood, but it's a fair bet it's a very basic one, 1050 or similar, and the strength and stiffness to weight ratios of this material are no better than steel anyway! All Robin Hood monocoques grow fatigue cracks, and the lightweight is made from a material far more susceptable than steel (even stainless), so it's bound to, and when it does you can't weld it up. I think RH are quietly dropping the lightweight.

Just my two penneth, but I'd go for a 2B or even an earlier monocoque. My 2B cost me £3200 to get on the road in 2002. Built to a basic but decent spec (stainless panels, weather gear, Sierra rear springs and shocks, Sierra seats and clocks), including SVA but not Tax or Insurance. It's done 21000 miles since, I haven't kept track of what I've spent, but would guess that (over and above routine maintainence) its probably £1000-1500

[Guest tom2b]

I thought RH had all but dropped the lightweight or was i imagining that?

[Guest ScotMac]

Those 2b's that RH are selling on ebay are still the sierra rear subframe, right? I would go for a l/w or the new hood for that reason alone....though i am not sure the new hood will be that budget orientated (is rh doing any special deals to get the initial interest up?). My $.02.

 

Yes, the alloy of the RH supplied panels is still a mystery. However, all the strengthening should be done in 6061-t6, as mine is. The existing monocoques cracked in fairly specific high stress areas, right? Thus, it is just a question of whether i have covered those stress areas w/ my strengthening and whether RH panels will hold up for the rest. I believe i have and i believe it will. All new cars are a bit of a gamble in the kit car industry (i believe very few of the dealers do extensive enough testing)...you just have to build based on what you believe the car needs.

 

-Scot

 

 

I thought RH had all but dropped the lightweight or was i imagining that?

 

We believe that RH has one l/w left....just waiting for the lucky individual who gets the last one.

 

Also, they seem to be coming up on ebay often enough. Around 100 were sold in the uk, right? And only 3 SVA'd, that we know of. In fact, it appears that RH's is on ebay right now:

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Robin-Hood-Lightweig...1QQcmdZViewItem

[Guest timswait]

The 2B does still use the Sierra's IRS set up. Double wishbones would be nice, and would be an improvement, but the Sierra IRS is pretty sound, especially when used with decent coil-overs. For a long time all sevens were live axle! On track I've found the 2B pretty well balanced, you can get under or oversteer on demand. It does roll a bit more than is ideal (still very little compared to a normal saloon, see the photo, that was before the latest round of suspension improvements, it's a bit stiffer now), and is a bit heavy, but as an everyday useable car which is affordable and still great to drive on track (even if it's not quite on the pace of the Westies and Tigers), I think its great.

I think the new Hood will be better than the 2B. I don't see any reason it should be substantially more expensive to make than the 2B, but I think they'll still sell them at a premium.

[Grim]

Tim: Has nobody told you that you can't lean a car into a corner like you can a motorbike?

[Guest ScotMac]

Tim: Has nobody told you that you can't lean a car into a corner like you can a motorbike?

 

Having done almost all my racing in a gokart, he looks perfectly correct to me!!!

[Guest ScotMac]

The 2B does still use the Sierra's IRS set up. Double wishbones would be nice, and would be an improvement, but the Sierra IRS is pretty sound, especially when used with decent coil-overs. For a long time all sevens were live axle! On track I've found the 2B pretty well balanced, you can get under or oversteer on demand. It does roll a bit more than is ideal (still very little compared to a normal saloon, see the photo, that was before the latest round of suspension improvements, it's a bit stiffer now), and is a bit heavy, but as an everyday useable car which is affordable and still great to drive on track (even if it's not quite on the pace of the Westies and Tigers), I think its great.

I think the new Hood will be better than the 2B. I don't see any reason it should be substantially more expensive to make than the 2B, but I think they'll still sell them at a premium.

 

I agree. The 2b is a great car, for many reasons. But i also believe that the l/w can be great car, if done right.

 

\

[Guest gdc]

so many questions?

 

the lightweight on ebay i think is the last one , i believe it will be sold unstrengthened gbs to prove me wrong.

as for build i have found the no2 mk2 to be easier to build than the 2b ,that i first built 18 months ago,

for 2 reasons the first and foremost is the knowlage i have gained since starting to play with hoods the second is the material that it is constructed with.

an alloy pannel is far easier to form and drill than a stainless one

i am a heating engineer fortunatly i have a large shed to work in but limmited knowlage and basic tools.

the alloy used is a mystery and we suspect it is a basic grade ,but as scott says the work to make the tub stronger should eleviate most of the issues with the alloy (note i am biased )

bonding of all panals is essiencial

to inprove the stifness of the tub and to give longevety to the whole assembly

if its not flexing to much then it shouldnt break.

re the hood

richards baby

the hood as far as i am aware is tublar chassis with alloy pannals ,with fully adjustable akkerman suspention to the front and fully adjustable suss on the rear.

it appears to be an improvement on all hoods to date!

as there is more than one type of kit for sale there will always be the fors and against any model.

i like the lighteweight thats clear others like the superspec or the 2b then when the hood starts to sell there will be supporters of that .

the title lightweight infers that it is light, not as light as it might be, with the strengthening and a ford xflow mine is about 600kg ish yet to be put on a weigh bridge though

if any one want to buy the lightweight on ebay i will pass on the mods i have used to gain sva and those being used on no2

as far as gbs selling the lightweight in the future

they have all the patterns and could start to produce if the demand was there .

i had a converservation with richard when i picked up the troublesome lightweight and pauls new body (good job paul) last week and he had been hesitant in advertising the last one for fear of a slagging on this forum .

(they do read this forum and appear to react to views on this forum)

as for the concept

i am not sure its just the concept that appeals but the proportions of the lightweight are in my humble opinion better than its forebears.

it sits better ,the body appears lower and the rear wings make the car look wider and more purposful.

 

if you wamt a chaterham or westfield or mk or any of the other kits you are going to pay for the additional r/d

that has gone into the development of the product ,as hoodies we accept the lack of r/d we end up with a kit that is able to be put on the road with additional effort and thought,

sometimes extra thought is rqd and this forum gives it! free of charge.

 

best regards graham

 

ps my typing is not good and i think it has took about an hour to reply

[Guest STEVE OXON]

hi. i reckon my 2b with extras pack .mostly not used,different seats,sold the old ones supplied,to include new tyres.loads of st/st rivets,all sorts of other bits.weather gear,on the road taxed tested sva etc and insurance it realistically owes me 6 grand and 3 yrs of my spare time.only about two /three evenings a week and bits of weekends sometimes. so there we have it.........

hth

steve

[gomatthome]

I recently completed my 2b having purchased the 2b+ kit this comes with front wishbone suspension alloy wheels etc etc. i had never built before and with only limited extra tools and lots of questions on the site had a car 18 months later.

 

the 2b kit is now £3k.

 

my donor was £180 but it took almost 12 months to find one they are becomming rare. RH were offering a donor pack dont take this up unless you have to. if you find your own donor it makes SVA / registration so much easier. The donor is easy to strip down i took out everything over a long weekend so the shell went off the drive in two weeks which kept the other half happy.

 

extra costs included new seats new shocks, paint wiper system new radiator car on the road for circa 4.5K ish.

 

personally i would not buy a part built car, half the battle and the fun is working out how everything fits together and you also can assure yourself that everything has been done correctly. If you were looking at a part built kit then i would suggest you take apart and start again.

 

I found that getting to rolling chassis stage is the easiest and quickest bit. its what comes next that takes a lot of time and head scratching.

 

The web site is very helpful and a member will always pop out if needed for the price of a beer. Join up to get full membership.

 

If i can build from scratch then i am sure anyone can. If in doubt come to one of the shows and speak to members they are happy to help. i did before committing myself to a purchase.

 

phil