Zetec Progres

[stevedohc2b]

Fan belt set up

 

stephen

[Les Welsher]

Looks like it should be going the right way then

 

Les

[Bob Tucker]

So I guess STEVEDOHC2B is now extinct.....

 

Who are you now??

 

STEVETEC2B?

ZEVE2B?

STEVE16V2B?

But I guess DOHC still applies really...

 

Long live the ancient Hoodie tradition of "Its never quite good enough.....gotta change something"

Bob

(Resprayed wings, nose cone, rear wings in Ferrari Testarossi Red, & new rear AVO coilovers done over winter!!!)

[Guest gdc]

hi stephen

 

if the black top is the same as the silver top in dans ,

you need the water pump from the 1800 as it turns the other way .

the impeller is reversed as i think the 1800 dosnt have as much equipment being driven by the belt and is therfore driven on the other side othe belt.

think imm right awaiting to be shot down again.

 

regards graham

[Andy Spencer]

Think you should be OK with that setup Steve. Mine's not got an 1800 water pump on it. You are running it in the right direction.

 

Might be worth drilling a couple of 3mm holes in the stat to have a bit of circulation before it opens. Made mine much more stable during warm up. Was getting local hotspots before.

 

Andy

[Longboarder]

I bought a water rail, looked at how they said it worked, decided it was a poor design and flogged it. There is no flow to the thermostat when it is closed. It relies on convection currents if used as designed. Drill the two 3mm holes and you get flow to the stat but slower warm-up. Restrict the flow to the heater to a 5mm pipe(Solder fill the heater-pipe take-off from the rail and drill a 5mm hole only{may need to vary this drilling a bit bigger}). Keep the free flowing return. That gives a bit less pressure in the return line and lower pressure in the larger of the header pipes. As the small header pipe comes off the rail above the thermostat it is open to the top hose but not the top of the rad so doesn't bleed all the air from the rad. Expansion in the system as it warms from cold causes rising pressure and will allow some water to reverse flow into the bottom of the rad, displacing cold water up the rad and along the top hose to the rail above the stat and then on to the header. If the header tank is pressurised and sealed it should not fill. The cap on the rail should be a blanking cap. If you run with the cap off the header it will fill.

Last time I looked at the instructions for the rail you have, it said not to try with a header but to allow excess water to blow out, and find its own level. Accept low water level when cold. Seemed like an admission that they couldn't get the thing to work and they had designed it.

If you search the forums on zetec water rails, westfield and locosters, you will find many having problems. I'm sure the best option is to restrict flow into the heater but keep good flow in the heater return.

So I moved my engine forward half an inch, got a longer prop and used the standard ford tstat housing. The heater circuit does all my warm up circulation. Blanked off the warm up pipe off the stat housing. All the warm up flow passes over the stat so it knows when to open.

 

Nigel

[Les Welsher]

Steven,

Having looked at the system Nigels correct, the water rail is a bad design.

The heater take off point should be from the underside of the thermostat housing allowing the thermostat to heat up to open with the flow of hot water going to the heater. With the heater outlet 1/2 way along the rail this is going to take ages to happen.

 

Les

[Guest salty_monk]

This is from a USA email list I'm on... seems people have trouble both sides of the pond.

This guys seems to have found a cure, largely matches what Nigel was saying.

 

Dan

 

We had issues with unstable temperatures for a couple of years. Finally,

after looking at the cooling system on ordinary street cars it was obvious

they cured it with a thermostat bypass system. My car used to be unable to

achieve any temperature at all in the cold months, and would quickly overhead

or boil in the summer.

 

I have a Raceline water rail. I drilled a hole under and to the side of the

thermostat. From there I ran a half inch hose to the inlet of the water pump.

In real life what happens is the water trapped in the cold engine is allowed

to flow through this smaller hose to the water pump, creating a cycle. As the

water seeps by under the thermostat the engine is warming up. As the water

gets hotter it touches the bottom of the thermostat causing it to open further

and start the water flow normally. If the engine starts cooling the

thermostat will close accordingly.

 

My temperatures have been stable and normal since I installed this system. I

drove in seven NASA track weekends last year with various weather extremes,

the water temperatures stayed completely normal as if on the street. Yes, a

thermostat is essential and is there for a reason. With the water rail you

need this system to let the thermostat know how hot the engine internal water

is getting. Without it the engine will boil away and the thermostat will be

unaware.

 

Regards,

 

Folis

[Andy Spencer]

I really don't have any problems with the 3mm holes drilled. The stat opens within 2 miles of home having watched the temp sender to gauge gradually rising steadily with the low flow. As the stat opens the gauge jumps to 90ish and then drops to 70 as the system flushes. Then settles out at 80-85ish.

 

I don't have a header or heater though and my horizontal rad is lower than the stat housing. The level always stays full in the stat housing but a little less than full in the rad but never overheats.

 

I agree the rail is a poor design with no flow to the stat during warm up. Easily overcome however. Certainly better than retrospectively removing engine again and moving forwards. In the 2b you'll be fouling the gearchange with the dash if you do that anyway.

 

Good luck. I'll still try and pop in if I can at some point soon. Work's a little mad and changeable at present.

 

Andy

 

Pic (poor, sorry) attached shows rail. For anyone interested or undertaking a similar project the flow comes out of back of head (near oil filler cap), down rail, past heater take off (mine is tee'd directly back into system), past temp sender to gauge (blue wire) and up to stat. Stat top housing has ECU temp sender for coolant temperature changes. You'll also find without the 3mm holes that the ECU will think the coolant is still low temp before stat opens (wrong side of stat) and will overfuel to compensate - could be the cause of your dirty plugs. In fact it will be the cause.

[stevedohc2b]

I have been talking to Nigel to night and feel I can sort the prob. Thanks Nigel. i now fully understand the mapping program.

 

back in the garage Friday night.

 

Stephen

[Guest chris brown]

I have been talking to Nigel to night and feel I can sort the prob. Thanks Nigel. i now fully understand the mapping program.

 

back in the garage Friday night.

 

Stephen

It's good to here that Nigel was able to help but I didn’t expect otherwise. Sorry I couldn’t be of assistance but as I said once computers are brought into the job then I'm lost. But it was good to have a chat anyway. Best of luck over the weekend

 

Chris

[stevedohc2b]

Nigel is a god He spent 3 hours on the phone with me going through all the menus

I have realized that the exhaust manifold was blowing as the bolts had bottomed out as the ford manifold was thicker so had not pulled the manifold up tight fitted shorter bolts and some washers and now nice and tight with some paste to make sure.

 

I going to try some new plugs.

 

Stephen

[Longboarder]

We nattered about omex ECU and the software. That was fun. I enjoyed our chat and was happy to try to help. I'm lucky that I have been playing with the omex for a year and am beginning to get how it the software works.

I didn't get that your exhaust was not bolted up tight, or you need new plugs and by the lack of a 'Whoopee, it runs like a dream' it doesn't sound as if any of the changes I suggested have sorted your running problems.

The Griffin kit was supposed to come with a map that would be OK straight out of the box. As it's not, I would concentrate on checking your mechanical installation, manifolds, fuel pressure, wiring, cam timing, etc to see if any of the possible common mechanical or electrical errors are causing problems.

 

Nigel

[stevedohc2b]

Nigel hope to take her out but it was raining and the race line rad cap fitted to water rail will not hold pressure so need to sort that first.

 

The changes to map did not make a lot of differences so started to check every thing and found exhaust DHO so sorted that and fitted new plugs for good measure and she ran with a tweaked map a lot lot better, then had to come in for dinner and Wine so hope Whoopee after a drive.

 

I called sorted to soon before

 

My understanding is now 1000 % better.

 

Thanks

 

Stephen

[stevedohc2b]

Wow it drives so smooth and quite. The car feels so different only taken it easy as it is new ( running in )

the cooling works fine with 2 holes in therostat the rad fan cuts in and out fine. The new gear box is smooth. the steering shaft feels solid with new baring fitted. Trying to stop with out the servo is so different at first you panic it no going to stop but soon get use to it.

 

 

A happy Hoodie :D

 

Stephen