Gbs Single Throttle Body Plenum For Zetec

[Guest Alan_builder]

We've just come back from Sweden, where there was a 1.8 black top zetec in a 2B running all the standard inlet and ECU, all the owner had done was to cut the manifold close to the mounting flange, turn the plenum etc over and reweld it together.

 

The car was RHD and it all cleared the steering ok, good, cheap, reasonably easy solution. He's been running it like that for a few years without any problems

 

Hi Steve, Good holiday?

 

 

That mod is not quite the point.

 

Ford gagged the Zetec 1.8l down to 130 bhp from a possible 180BHP when they fitted it into the Focus. (OK 180 not tested,but about the theoretical maximum for a 1.8 NA) What Ford went for was economy on the inlet manifold, throttle body and ECU map. To realize the power all one has to do is dump the inlet and outlet restrictions.

 

We all have a silly idea about tuning engines to get more out, there is a finite output power for any CC when normally aspirated. All we ever do is make the restrictions on the inlet and exhaust worse. (That is a double negative)

 

Fine point when we change the cams, are we tuning it or still de-restricting it? We are moving the operating point of the engine and often making the engine not suitable for general road use.

 

Any way a very good spot. I did try and put throttle bodies onto the plastic header but gave up when I found there is an aluminum part on the 1.8L Escort which is easier to work and has better porting to boot.

 

 

[Guest davidm]

I'm no expert, but I'd tend to agree with Alan over inlets & outlets being the main restrictors to basic power.

 

Back in the old days, when computers ran on coke and a Wii was something you did in the lavatory, the perceived wisdom at my local motorsport club was...

 

Get as much air/fuel in as fast as you can

Burn it as fast as you can

Get as much spent gas out as fast as you can

 

OK - there were no ECU's or throttle bodies entering the equation in those days, just bigger carbs, but surely the basic principle still holds true, doesn't it?

 

Another figure we used to work on was 80-85 bhp per litre for maximum driveability on the road. And yes... changing cams could often be a retrograde step for the reasons mentioned.

[steve in stockport]

I totally agree that the standard inlet set up probably is restrictive if you're after max power. I was just highlighting what can be done for very little cost to give you a reliable daily driver, or a stepping stone to TBs to quote GBS.

The Swedish car was using the aluminiun inlet from an escort and maybe with a bit of port matching etc could release a bit more power. Bjorn was just after reliability so has left it all as standard, all the hp in the world is no use if the engine decides to fail when you're above the arctic circle, it's a long wait for the AA up there!

[MarkBzero]

Guys I'll be happy with 100 BHP, built for crusing not speed, fast acceleration. No convouys for me you lot would leave me standing.

Poor xflow.....

[Guest Chutney]

I'm doing the zetec conversion and have kept the factory inlet because:

A: anything else is expensive

B: I want to hear that engine run

C: I want to keep my options open.

 

There are loads of options to play with at a later stage:

Jenveys

At jobbys

Roller barrels ( my choice if I could afford)

Turbo

Superchargers

Dare I mention nos?

Or some heath Robinson thing made from drainpipe.

 

Go on... Do something different

[fry61]

Guys I'll be happy with 100 BHP, built for crusing not speed, fast acceleration. No convouys for me you lot would leave me standing.

Poor xflow.....

 

Be at the back with me & Florin;a great 2 seater touring car,with a boot big enough for the supermarket shopping.

[Longboarder]

I was looking at this as an option: http://www.mtechauto...hrottle-bodies/ £1495+VAT (£1795) for what looks like everything (ECU / TB / Wiring etc.)

As I understand it, mtech are offering an ecu which is essentially a development of megasquirt. I think comparing that with a 'kit' using Emerald or Omex is not quite comparing like with like.

 

That's not to say that the mtech ecu can't do the job. The megasquirts are getting pretty sophisticated but IMO do not yet match Emerald and Omex, particularly with familiarity to many/most rolling road operators . I would be interested to know if there might be issues with which rolling roads would be happy to map an mtech ecu fitted car. GDC had a lot of experience with mtech in his lightweight and is now using Omex.

 

Nigel

[stevedohc2b]

Re mt**h ba*re, poll,to**h and cow**y phrases that spring spring to mind

 

Stephen

[Guest gdc]

as stephen and nigel says .

i have been there and i am a lot poorer for the experiance .

wont be doing that again .

for me steer clear.

 

graham

[Guest Hammy360]

Hello everyone,

 

So I'm about to order my new engine, and I was pretty sure that I was going to go with a standard TB/ECU setup (Jenvey / Emerald or Omex). Excuse my ignorance, but where does the Single Throttle Body Plenum sit in this equation? I'm guessing it's a replacement for the Jenvey type TB, but what are the advantages / disadvantages (seems much cheaper, so there must be a downside!).

 

Maybe someone could humour me and let me know how an engine setup would go with the Single Plenum vs the TB route.

 

Apologies if this is blindingly obvious, but I'm confused!

 

Thanks

 

Russell

 

Russell,

I am in exactly the same predicament I have spent a LOT of money in my 3 month build and am looking for a similair set up to you. Ive been looking at the GBS plenum, standard zetc loom and megasquirt with a view to upgrade next year. I have NO idea as yet if thats a solution but will be watching this thread closely. Let me know how you get on mate.

[femster87]

Here is what I think russell, firstly nobody mentioned the dimensions of the Zero, the standard Zetec inlet wont fit without modifications. If your going for the cheaper option, I would say bike throttle bodies and ECU of your choice( megasquirt, emerald,omex or webber). For the GBS manifold, with emerald and the loom, you are still looking at £900 with a free map from GBS to make it work. So why not go bike throttle bodies straight and get about 165 bhp in comparison to the manifold ( I cannot see you getting more that 150 with the manifold), and the cost would be similar. You can even buy a prebuilt megasquirt and scrounge for a good enough maps on locostbuilders (quite a few people have got similar setup). As this is my first build am going all out, It might take longer to finish but I can wait. I have not bought a new engine so I can afford to splash out on the inlet system. Plus they would not really loose that much money, TBs and ecu's still fetch good money on eblag.

 

Someone mentioned how much the GBS manifold would fetch later on, from experience, I had a griffin plenum system, not too different, and could not shift it for anything close to what i bought it for (secondhand). Ultimately, the choice is yours.

[Guest sandy77uk]

I went for the fit and forget method, ok it cost me best part of 2k but i'm happy to leave that to someone else

[Guest RPD1970]

Thanks for all the comments guys. I guess I'll wait and see how much cash I have spare when the time comes and base my decision on that!!

[Guest Hammy360]

Russ

Go on eBay and search 'wesfield gsxr' it looks good. I just bought a similar set up mate and I paid less than the cost of the GBS plenum

[Guest Alan_builder]

As I understand it, mtech are offering an ecu which is essentially a development of megasquirt. I think comparing that with a 'kit' using Emerald or Omex is not quite comparing like with like.

 

That's not to say that the mtech ecu can't do the job. The megasquirts are getting pretty sophisticated but IMO do not yet match Emerald and Omex, particularly with familiarity to many/most rolling road operators . I would be interested to know if there might be issues with which rolling roads would be happy to map an mtech ecu fitted car. GDC had a lot of experience with mtech in his lightweight and is now using Omex.

 

Nigel

 

I am not sure about this either, reports of a company who had made a bad Chinease copy of the Megasquirt, was that mtec? I further believe litigation was instigated. If so from what I read I agree with the comments on that product.

 

As far as I can see and have tested, there is nothing wrong with Megasquirt, some may be disappointed because the model they have purchased fails to full fill their requirements post purchase, in short they got what they paid for, if they had paid more then they would have purchased a model with all the facilities they required. That is a user problem not a Megasquirt issue.

 

 

I would agree it is difficult to buy a Magasquirt, they are available on line in do it yourself assembly and ready built. If this would be your first attempt at PCB assembly then the pre-built or a professional builder should be your route. Again the Megasquirt shop is confusing, complicated unfriendly even, who do you turn to for help? Any way please stay away from Ebay, unfortunately many sellers there are as confused as may buyers, offering product at prices which look like they a value for money while they are actually not. It may be the seller genuinely thinks he is selling the product I read to be advertised, on more than one occasion I almost purchased the wrong part. Thank goodness I took 3 looks and finally saw what I would have received, not what I wanted of course.

 

The megasquirts are getting pretty sophisticated but IMO do not yet match Emerald and Omex

 

 

To the best of my knowledge and research there is no mode or parameter Megasquirt can't do which Emerald or Omex can save for one and that is a philosophy issue, obviously taking like for like product as near as one can across 3 ranges of products. I do believe Megasquirt don't do switchable mapping, vis racing, normal or economy. Megasquirt say lift your foot of the loud pedal and you get the same result! The argument for having differing maps seems to be for the inexperienced driver? well if they are that bad would you want them driving your baby any way? FOG - Foot Off Gas!

 

 

but IMO do not yet match Emerald and Omex, particularly with familiarity to many/most rolling road operators

 

 

I think this is a double edge sword. I do believe the post to be correct however if I had a rolling road facility I would purchase a Megasquirt (peanuts against the RR cost) and fit it to a car so I had familiarity. Further how could any one in the engine tuning game not be familiar with one of the larger manufacturers products? So you are at the RR facility and he is doing your Omex ECU setup, you ask him about Emerald or Megasquirt and the reply is like I don't do those. Is he an Omex spcialist or has he only the equipment or personal knowledge for the Omex ? Do you ask you self how good a job he will really do?

 

At the end of the day it is your money, so please spend it how you see fit