Singing Pinto

[lockyer89]

So yesterday I went up to Cambridgeshire to pick up a stage 4 cylinder head, 45.5mm inlet valves, double valve springs etc... very happy with it and can't wait to sit it on top of the 205, fully rebuilt with new pistons. Got it from a guy called Stan - works for Burtsmotorsport, very knowledgeable guy, offered me a lot of advice. As i'm not touching the bottom end, I've just got some arp con rod bolts on order to strengthen.

 

So the set up will consist of 45 webers, the new cylinder head with a vernier pulley, a high torque cam (not sure which one yet!!) hear lots of people on here rave about the fr32? Is that a good one to go for? And a 4 branch manifold. Hopefully i'll be looking at about 170ish bhp - thoughts?

 

With all of that, it'll be a used a mainly a road car, but with a few track days. Do you recommend an oil cooler? High pressure oil pump as well?

 

Cheers,

 

Simon

[lockyer89]

And fuel pump, will it run fine with the mechanical?

[Tazzzzman1]

I ran mine with 130bhp at wheels &bike carbs using the mechanical pump with no issues at all, just used an inline pressure regulator. Car still running 3 years on...(as far as I know).

[Snapperpaul]

170bhp is a big ask, you'll need high compression and you limited by cast pistons 10.5 to 1 max

For 170bhp you'll need high revs and your limited to 7000 with standard rods

The FR32 will rev to 7500 but peak power is about 5800rpm and 130 to 150 bhp

 

For 170bhp you'll need better rods and forged pistons

 

I've got a Pinto with Cosworth rods but cast V6 pistons I'm limited to 10.5 to 1 compression and 7800 rpm but will run 10.7 to 1 and 7500 red line

My head is big inlet standard exhaust I hope to get above 160bhp we will see

 

FR32 is a good fast road cam, better drivability than the RL31

High pressure/High capacity oil pump is the one to have

If you fit oil cooler try and fit 5/8" pipes swaged on

You'll only need an oil cooler if your oil pressure drops and oil temp rises when you cane it

Edited January 20, 2014 by Snapperpaul

[richardm6994]

thats a good spec engine and very similar to the one I ran. Paul is on the money with his compression ratio comments being what limits your power output and I'd guess you'll fall short on your power expectations because oyou're running standard compression.

 

My pinto was a 2.1 ltr, twin 48's, kent fr32, big valve head etc....etc...(all the usual) and 10.4:1 compression and saw an honest 134bhp at the wheels (from my bad memory).

Just be mindful that "flywheel" bhp is a best guess by the rolling road operator (he may stroke your ego and over-estimate his guess so you come back another day) and they are only any good for pub talk....the only reliable flywheel bhp figures come from a dyno.

 

I ran high pressure oil pump, mech fuel pump and no oil cooler

[lockyer89]

My understanding falls short on the compression part! But what i do understand is that's when we start getting into the big bucks! Bigger pistons and rods to get anywhere near the 170 mark then...

 

My plan was to leave the bottom end as is, I imagine this will be quick enough for my first go anyway!! The engine will be going in over the next couple of months, need to get the old one out first! The old engine has a KCFR 21 cam in already, this is the what they call an introduction Cam? So the KCFR 31 it is then.

 

Looking forward to stripping it down though, the wiring is in a terrible mess, it's the whole Sierra loom so 1" diameter in some places!!

 

This is my first kit car. Wanted one for a very long time! My dad built a dutton back in the day, before i was around!! So this one is a big learning curve for me, very excited by it all i must say!!

[Snapperpaul]

Either use the cam you've got or go for KCFR32

Other options are the FR30 high torque or FR34 injection cams, all high lift but less duration, power peaks at 6000 and compression can be lower

 

The physics behind compression ratio is about less chamber filling at low revs due to inlet opening earlier and closing later, the inlet exhaust overlap needs more compression to work until dynamic filling adds an advantage at higher revs

 

What this boils down to is poor low speed tickover, running rough and less power until it comes on cam then away we go

I found the KCFR32 a very good road cam and better than the RL31 until you hit 3500 to 4k then it flew away

On a Pinto more compression helps the cam work and is effectively cheap power

You can skim the head and you can fit thin gaskets, with standard compression at 9.2 to 1 a 1mm gasket will give 9.7 to 1 and if you skim the head you could use a Rheinz gasket at 1.3mm for £15 off eBay

On one of my engines the 2.1 I had a choice of 1mm Adjusa @ £40 or an Athena MLS AT £130

To use the trick head that had been skimmed a lot I had to pay for the thicker 93.5mm diameter gasket Ouch

[lockyer89]

Thanks for the advice, appreciate the replies greatly! So either a high torque cam to punch mid range revs, or a 32 to give a much later punch throughtout the rev range, i think i'll go with a torque little number - if anyone wants rid of one!?

 

Another question, does anyone know what jet sizes i'd need on the webers? I picked up a matching pair of 45's of ebay a couple of weeks back - came from Portugal! Very pleased with the condition, but looking to give them a good service.

 

Many thanks,

 

Simon

[Bob Tucker]

Hi Simon,

this guy knows his stuff....well worth a read...& an ex Robin Hood member too!

http://www.dvandrews.co.uk/

The Pinto is a very gutsy motor so..you dont need a torquey cam, the car is light enough not to need one.

I ran an FR32, & still had loads of low down grunt, I often wished I had gone for the FR33.

my engine spec was very similar to yours (but with 40s & 36mm chokes to increase torque),

& showed 120 bhp at rear wheels...estimated flywheel was 145-150 from a RR guy I trust.

HP oil pump is a good investment.

 

Join up, get along to some meets & blag a ride in a modified pinto car...

Bob