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garethbowers

Type 9 box

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Has anyone fitted a different box in place of the type 9?

Im not a fan of it really.  Feels sloppy and wrong gearing. 

Wondering how difficult would be to fit a mx5 mk 2.5 box or a Tremec T-5

Cheers Gareth 

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If memory serves correctly, the mx5 boxes have even worse ratios when used with a Sierra diff. 

Rx8 boxes are commonly used in place of ford boxes now, stronger and nice change, but again, not great ratios as they are designed for a car that can rev to 10k!

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Got a Caterham 6-speed in mine. Love it; perfect ratios. Boxes are a bit hard to find though.

Other option is just go aftermarket 6-speed sequential like a Quaife but you'll need deep pockets :D

edit: Actually I should have mentioned my previous solution, which was a Type 5 with a BGT gearset in it. Tall first and shortened 4/5th. It's a good compromise when you factor in the cost. ~£800 for the gearset (assuming you do it yourself), a good halfway house if you need to stick to a budget. Plus there are other reliability improvements in the BGT gearset that make it worthwhile.

Edited by brumster

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Hi mate thanks for the reply.  Is the T5 a dorect replacement for the Type 9? Im assuming they do a bellhousing to fit Vaux for it or would a type 9 housing slip on?

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On 11/3/2019 at 10:21 PM, brumster said:

Got a Caterham 6-speed in mine. Love it; perfect ratios. Boxes are a bit hard to find though.

Other option is just go aftermarket 6-speed sequential like a Quaife but you'll need deep pockets :D

edit: Actually I should have mentioned my previous solution, which was a Type 5 with a BGT gearset in it. Tall first and shortened 4/5th. It's a good compromise when you factor in the cost. ~£800 for the gearset (assuming you do it yourself), a good halfway house if you need to stick to a budget. Plus there are other reliability improvements in the BGT gearset that make it worthwhile.

Hi, ivbe never done any work on a gearbox before but im happy to give it a go. im fairly handy with engines etc.  How difficult is it to replace the sets?  Do you have a link to the BGT set at all?

 

cheers 

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On 11/3/2019 at 9:41 PM, theduck said:

If memory serves correctly, the mx5 boxes have even worse ratios when used with a Sierra diff. 

Rx8 boxes are commonly used in place of ford boxes now, stronger and nice change, but again, not great ratios as they are designed for a car that can rev to 10k!

Sorry mate, I didnt realise you had posted a reply too.  Thanks for that.  Think I may be better re gearing the type 9 then.

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If you can build an engine you can build a box. Much easier. You need a few different tools but as long as you can read and measure you’ll be fine. Workshop manuals for gear box’s are easily downloaded. I’ve done dozens of manual box’s, never tried an auto. 
I would love a straight cut set for mine, 1-4 anyway, leave 5 helical for cruising. 

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9 hours ago, garethbowers said:

Hi, ivbe never done any work on a gearbox before but im happy to give it a go. im fairly handy with engines etc.  How difficult is it to replace the sets?  Do you have a link to the BGT set at all?

 

cheers 

As MrB says, if you can rebuild an engine then a gearbox is perfectly doable if you can follow a set of instructions, be tidy and organised, and keep things clean. You don't really need much by way of special tools except a hub puller and you might need to make a pair of "tongs" to remove the rear layshaft bearing, but these I made out of some bent bits of steel I had kicking about, so hardly challenging.

You can search for lots of material on rebuilding the Type 9 but if you get stuck, PM me and I can send you some articles/guides. They are quite easily found. Search "type 9 rebuild pdf".

BGH (sorry, not BGT, I blame *bleep*e Saturday night TV for hammering that acronym into my head!) Geartech are here :

http://www.bghgeartech.co.uk/html/gear_kits.html

The gearkit you're most likely interested in is the E6 or E7. I had the E6 HD @ £810, plus the lubrication mod to 2nd and 3rd @ £45.

 

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Brilliant thanks gents will take a look into this.  

Other questions I have are, can i just buy a 5 gear set?  Currently using a 4 speed box or do I need a new box completely?

Also what ratios are best?

Also looking to replace the rear diff at some point with an ATB.

Many thanks.

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There was a great website for calculating ratios but it’s closed. Put diff ratio and tyre size, RPM limit, peak torque RPM etc in and it suggested road and race ratios. I’m sure there will be others if you have a google. 
 

As for upgrading 4-5 speed, I doubt it, none of the boxes I’ve worked on could be done because the shafts have to be longer to accommodate an additional pair of gears. The selector rods would need to accommodate an extra fork, and a 4 speed box would likely need an additional selector rod entirely because push pull x 2 rods is 4 speed. Unlikely they wasted an extra rod when they didn’t need to! There are other issues too. I’m won’t say it’s impossible on all boxes tho because my experience is limited to a small percentage of what is out there. And back to the shafts for a moment, thinner gears can be used rather than longer shafts but you would loose surface area thus strength, that’s compounded if you go for straight cut gears, It also changes the length of throw for selector forks and selector fork locating. 
 

Im going to be proven wrong now I know it 🤣

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Think ill just buy a 5 speed type 9 and uprate it lol

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Just to answer the above point, yeah you need a 5-speed casing to put 5 gears in. Actually there's a sandwich section on the type 9 which houses the 5th gear, so it's a development on top of the 4 speed. I am guessing there is probably technically a way of converting a 4 speed to a 5 but no-one would really do it - you'd sell your 4 speed whole.

As for the spreadsheets, mine's as an attachment on this forum, should be shown below now... edit: actually, wait, that's not my latest/best one with the graphs in it. I'll dig it out some time.

GearboxCalculationSpreadsheets.zip

Edited by brumster

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when my type 9 destroyed its lay shaft i rebuilt mine with heavy duty lay gear bearings and changed the gearing to v6 ratios i also sourced some heavy duty synchros for it. my 242bhp 260ft lb supercharged zetec didnt break the new box ! i also fitted the a quaife ATB which is great bit of kit transformed the car..

With v6 ratios and a 3.54 diff the car would pull 65mph in 2nd gear.

https://www.bearingkits.co.uk/FORD-GEARBOX-PARTS/FORD-TYPE-9-GEARBOX-PARTS/C1-10-1-0.htm best place i found for type 9 parts 

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