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SFX-Joe

Pinto Oil depth in sump?

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I'd agree with the above drawing. As mentioned though make sure you have the correct length dipstick and tube as they could affect where the max mark is.

I shortened my sump and didn't bother adding extra capacity and it's been fine for 10 years. I'm sure i read somewhere that the pinto can take a fair bit over the max line without a problem as the americans tended to overfill, but that could be complete nonsense. At the end of the day as long as the crank isn't hitting the oil and frothing it, keep the oil as high as you can.

I can measure mine later if you want for comparison

 

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Yes, you are correct, if you're interested only in how much oil you can put in before hitting the bottom of the crank/windage tray then the mark is fine, although you'll probably need to cut a bit off the end of the dipstick so that it goes in all the way and doesn't hit the sump itself.

As you've already worked out, it doesn't help in terms of oil capacity. Which I thought was the prime concern here. Initially the thought was it wasn't draining down quick enough (which might still be the case) but now are we saying you might not have enough oil in there? A quick google suggests just under 4L for a Pinto!?

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13 minutes ago, agent_zed said:

I'd agree with the above drawing. As mentioned though make sure you have the correct length dipstick and tube as they could affect where the max mark is.

I shortened my sump and didn't bother adding extra capacity and it's been fine for 10 years. I'm sure i read somewhere that the pinto can take a fair bit over the max line without a problem as the americans tended to overfill, but that could be complete nonsense. At the end of the day as long as the crank isn't hitting the oil and frothing it, keep the oil as high as you can.

I can measure mine later if you want for comparison

 

Please do, it would be great for peace of mind!

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3 minutes ago, brumster said:

Yes, you are correct, if you're interested only in how much oil you can put in before hitting the bottom of the crank/windage tray then the mark is fine, although you'll probably need to cut a bit off the end of the dipstick so that it goes in all the way and doesn't hit the sump itself.

As you've already worked out, it doesn't help in terms of oil capacity. Which I thought was the prime concern here. Initially the thought was it wasn't draining down quick enough (which might still be the case) but now are we saying you might not have enough oil in there? A quick google suggests just under 4L for a Pinto!?

I think it could be a mix of the two? Hypothetically lets sat the sump now holds 2L now vs 3L if it was original... Of course the oil level is shallower which could prompt air intake to the oil system via surging. My other thought is lets say the sump has 2L in when the engine is off then when started it sucks up a load of oil to fill the oil system and ultimately have some pumping around the cam cover.... How much does that leave down bellow? Say It takes 1L in the head and pipes when running that leave me only 1L down bellow, not much? Resulting in super low levels of oil down bellow?

Does anyone here know what depth their sump is from the top lip to the lowest point? Mine is 12cm (120mm). The guy that made it could have easily gone 30mm deeper as the bell housing for the gearbox is at least 30 - 40mm bellow the sump level. Tom wondering if mine is almost too short??

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3 minutes ago, brumster said:

Can't fault the thinking ;) !

I am glad someone has the same thought process as me. 

Of course this doesn't answer why it does it now and didn't before. However, new standard oil pump and new spray bar going in today, will test that with the new baffles and let you guys know if I crack it....

If not, I will scream and kick and be in a foul mood for a time to come. Of course while ordering a old sump  with pickup and modifying it myself to a slightly longer length... Last resort. 

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Another roundabout option : look up "Accusump" or "oil accumulator" ;)

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22 minutes ago, brumster said:

Another roundabout option : look up "Accusump" or "oil accumulator" ;)

Ok now that's super cool.... Tho surely that will take even more to fill that too? Deffo an option for me to research!!!

Just read about the elecrontic valve.... Very cool. So can fill the Accusump, then check oil level in sump, bring back to max. Boom, Done. This may be a good solution! not to mention it looks pretty snazzy!

The Accusump is a reasonable price, however the switch to make it work... Less appealing.

Edited by SFX-Joe

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Aye, it does what it says on the tin really. I have one on the Zero, partly because the sump capacity is reduced but also because I don't fancy spinning a bearing on an expensive engine :)

It's peace of mind really. I really rate them, and I know an engine builder who did also. Particularly if you've got an engine with known problems with oil surge.

If you're looking to get back some capacity lost, it's a roundabout way of doing it, and arguably easier than hacking about with custom sumps.

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32 minutes ago, brumster said:

Aye, it does what it says on the tin really. I have one on the Zero, partly because the sump capacity is reduced but also because I don't fancy spinning a bearing on an expensive engine :)

It's peace of mind really. I really rate them, and I know an engine builder who did also. Particularly if you've got an engine with known problems with oil surge.

If you're looking to get back some capacity lost, it's a roundabout way of doing it, and arguably easier than hacking about with custom sumps.

Couldn't agree more. Do you have the electronic valve fitted to your ignition or the manual ball valve?

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Basically your sump has been shortened too much, ideally it should be 140mm/5.5 inches deep.

Replacement sumps can be had for sub £150 from GBS or Ebay which is probably less than the cost of having a band welded into your sump to extend it.

This might tie into your other problem of excess oil in the cam cover, oil being slow to return from the top of the engine, very low oil capacity and a higher capacity pump could easily lead to oil starvation on cornering or hard braking. 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, steve in stockport said:

Basically your sump has been shortened too much, ideally it should be 140mm/5.5 inches deep.

Replacement sumps can be had for sub £150 from GBS or Ebay which is probably less than the cost of having a band welded into your sump to extend it.

This might tie into your other problem of excess oil in the cam cover, oil being slow to return from the top of the engine, very low oil capacity and a higher capacity pump could easily lead to oil starvation on cornering or hard braking. 

 

 

Agreed, I think the sump is a bit on the short side. If the standard pump, oil spray bar and extra baffle that I am doing later today doesn't do it I will get an ACCUSUMP and have done with it. 

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3 hours ago, brumster said:

The electric one

Have you used a filter sandwich plate or gone direct into the block elsewhere?

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