Question for the masses

[Guest Trevor 2B]

I have recently stepped down as Area Secretary for the West Country Area - this will be a surprise for the committee as I have not advised them as yet as I am arranging my successor.

 

My reasons for standing down were mainly due to work committments but I am not intending to rejoin RHOCaR for the following reasons:

 

1. Overall, I do not feel it offers value for money. The only items which have been put forward in this argument as benefits of RHOCaR are the magazine and insurance discount. It will not leave a great void in my life if I do not receive the magazine as the quality of content has been falling recently IMO, and having had a conversation with an insurance broker their view is that as a member of a motor club of some type you are perceived as an enthusiast - it does not matter which club you are a member of. For your information I have joined the local motor club.

 

2. Despite the fact the community board is open to all users, whether members or not, it is my opinion, and that of others, that if you are not members of the 'inner circle' of posters you may as well not exist - if you post anything as an 'outsider' you appear to either get no reaction or a rebuff for posting such an insignificant item. Not exactly the way to attract new members. Check the number of board users that have responded to this thread.

 

3. The 'vibe' that has come from the committee through the magazine is that they are very pleased with how they have done and are patting themselves on the back. Don't get me wrong, I know running any club is a thankless task, but blowing sunshine up your own backside is the fastest way to rub people up the wrong way. Editing peoples posts in this thread who have made negative comments towards the club does little for the club PR.

 

4. At the recent Stoneleigh Show the West Country Area were presented with the area banner by Mick Mellors (thanks Mick) and we were clearly identifiable. However, apart from my conversation with Mick no other member of the committee identified themselves to either myself or any other area members. Area secretaries are the backbone of a national club and can take responsibility from the main committee in chasing up members for subscriptions, etc. I received the first membership list over 10 weeks after RHOCaR were advised that I had taken over the area, I have subsequently received no more information so I am unaware who is a paid up member or not locally.

 

5. My opinion is that if members have not paid their membership fee by the start of the year they should not receive the magazine, and ideally be denied access to the website as this should be a members benefit.

 

I feel I have credibility to comment as I have been involved with car owner & motorsport clubs for the last 15 years and understand what makes them work and what does not.

 

This posting is not intended to 'stir it up' but is merely my personal opinion on why people are not rejoining.

[Guest Battery Bill]

I just spent ages replying to this post and the "Blinking" computer would not upload it :gdit: :gdit: :gdit:

I will try again

[Guest Battery Bill]

Mr 2B

if you are not members of the 'inner circle' of posters you may as well not exist - if you post anything as an 'outsider' you appear to either get no reaction or a rebuff for posting such an insignificant item. Not exactly the way to attract new members. Check the number of board users that have responded to this thread

Well as an inner circle member I have to say what nonsence this is, most threads get responses some more than others, as for rebuffs what exactly do you mean and can you paste some examples because I cannot remember any "Rebuffs" as you call them!

This thread is a genuine question as to if paid for magazines should be "Given" to people who cannot be bothered to pay for them :gdit:

Fair question as far as I can see

magazine as the quality of content has been falling recently IMO

Have you ever contributed to it then ?

 

Editing peoples posts in this thread who have made negative comments towards the club does little for the club PR.

The editing has nothing to do with the club its to stop slanging matches going on on the website between people "Members or non Members"

 

However, apart from my conversation with Mick no other member of the committee identified themselves to either myself or any other area members

Did you intoduce yourself to them? If not why not ? you were supposed to be the Area Secretary for the West Country Area do you expect everyone to come running over to you to introduce themselves

 

I feel I have credibility to comment as I have been involved with car owner & motorsport clubs for the last 15 years and understand what makes them work and what does not.

And how much organisational work have you yourself done with these various clubs? and if any did they have such a large and growing membership?

If you understand so well you must realise that negative comments like these do nothing but harm to clubs and organisations, but perhaps after nobody spoke to you at Stoneleigh thats what you want. :boohoo: :boohoo: :boohoo:

Sorry but I think the club will benefit from losing some ex members

[Guest Ant]

Everyone is entitled to their oppinion, and its good to see someone putting forward negative comments for a change. I think that lots of people are happy to say "well done" because it's not contraversial, wheras pointing out the faults is more likely to get a "bad press" kind of response, so people tend to keep quiet if they're not happy. I for one am glad that you haven't done that.

 

I would like to pick up specifically on two of the points you've made:

 

1. Overall, I do not feel it offers value for money.  The only items which have been put forward in this argument as benefits of RHOCaR are the magazine and insurance discount.

 

To me its more than that. The support received from this board, its predecessor, and the yahoo 2B group were a major factor in my car reaching a roadworthy state. They are all, directly or indirectly, part of RHOCAR, even though they may not have started up that way, or be explicitely a "member benefit". Without RHOCAR the organisation then I don't think this forum would get the support which it does, and hence it wouldn't be as useful as it is.

 

Another big benefit is the area meetings. As members of a club I know where to go to meet like minded people, have a look at similar cars, chat about cars and events, and generally have a good time. I've only been to our area meet 3 times now I think, but I've thoroughly enjoyed them all.

 

And finally, being a member of RHOCAR means that I can turn up to a show in my 2B and park it in a dedicated Robin Hood zone, and show off what I've built. That takes organisation, and for that I am quite happy to pay 15 quid. People who aren't members of RHOCAR shouldn't be allowed to put their cars on the RHOCAR club area, but that my oppinion, not that of the society as a whole.

 

Another point which is often overlooked is that the organisation that is RHOCAR is useful for legal reasons too. I believe the club officers have provided car valuations for the purposes of insurance claims for a start. That's a very valuable members service.

 

Remember that any club is simply a group of people. the membership fee pays for specific costs such as printing the mags, postage, membership cards, etc etc. Other than that it's the members and their input which makes it a valuable organisation. Did you approach any of the comittee members at the shows you mention? If not, then surely you're doing to them exactly what you're accusing them of doing to you?

 

The second bit I'd like to pick up on is this:

 

2. Despite the fact the community board is open to all users, whether members or not, it is my opinion, and that of others, that if you are not members of the 'inner circle' of posters you may as well not exist - if you post anything as an 'outsider' you appear to either get no reaction or a rebuff for posting such an insignificant item.  Not exactly the way to attract new members.  Check the number of board users that have responded to this thread.

 

That grates quite strongly with me. Yes the chit-chatters annoy me at times, and yes some of the topics are cliquey and only make sense to "the in crowd", but I don't see it as a problem. Posts on this board are sorted by topic. The whole point of a "chit chat" zone is that it's full of "chit chat". If a set of members have a laugh together at a show and then want to wind each other up about it on here what's the harm? If I follow the tales I soon find out what its all about, and if not then I ignore them. Simple as that. However, I strongly disagree with your comment about "outsiders" being ignored or shouted down. Obviously I don't know what's been edited out of posts, as I can't see it, but I and many many other "top posters" or "insiders" if you wish, reply to topics on here no matter who they're from. A classic example would be the current topic about cams which was started by a non-RHOCAR member who actually drives a Tiger. Not seen on here before, but posted an interesting question, and got a variety of responses. I will ALWAYS try to help someone out on here if I can. If it's not my topic (eg carb setup, turbos, etc etc) then I keep stum and simply read and learn. If everyone keeps stum then it's because nobody knows the answer, not because of any predjedice or cliqueyness.

 

I am the 4th most frequent poster on this forum. I am not a member of any clique. In fact, I regularly seem to annoy other frequent posters with my comments. It's not a problem though. I try to only write what I mean, and equally to mean what I write. If others don't agree then that's fine - add your two pence worth and it'll get read too.

 

Anyhow, I'm rambling so I'll shut up. Hopefully my reply doesn't annoy you, or anyone else. It's just my feelings on two of the points which you've made.

 

Ant

[Mat-Moo]

2. Despite the fact the community board is open to all users, whether members or not, it is my opinion, and that of others, that if you are not members of the 'inner circle' of posters you may as well not exist - if you post anything as an 'outsider' you appear to either get no reaction or a rebuff for posting such an insignificant item.  Not exactly the way to attract new members.  Check the number of board users that have responded to this thread.

I have to disagree with this, for example http://community.rhocar.org/index.php?showtopic=3552 I saw in his profile that he was a Tiger 6 driver, did I shunt him away or welcome him? I've seen plenty of posts on here where people have come in just to ask one question and never been seen again

(edit: JUst seen Ant has pointed this out just before I posted)

 

Go into any section and look at the post and the number of replies, you will barely find a topic without at leat one reply.

 

As a sub note, I don't know about the editing, but Mick it would be better to "quote" a post to reply rather than edit it, I do agree.

 

EDIT BY MICK - I tried the Quote button but it doesnt seem to work so I do the next best I can ! ! ! Further explanation added below.

[Guest Battery Bill]

Ant

Anyhow, I'm rambling so I'll shut up. Hopefully my reply doesn't annoy you, or anyone else

No we are on your side with this one

I regularly seem to annoy other frequent posters with my comments

And this one

[Big Jim]

I have recently stepped down as Area Secretary for the West Country Area - this will be a surprise for the committee as I have not advised them as yet as I am arranging my successor.

Well that's somewhat sad.

the magazine as the quality of content has been falling recently IMO

I don't remember any input from your way in the last mag? did I miss it?

Despite the fact the community board is open to all users, whether members or not, it is my opinion, and that of others, that if you are not members of the 'inner circle' of posters you may as well not exist - if you post anything as an 'outsider' you appear to either get no reaction or a rebuff for posting such an insignificant item. Not exactly the way to attract new members. Check the number of board users that have responded to this thread.

I'm sorry, but that's a load of *bleep*! Anyone who posts a question on this board is answered in a civil manner, although certain questions do get repeated regularly, so reference to previous posts can be the answer. there's no such thing as an "inner sanctum" I, along with others, use the board a lot, and believe in answering any post that I feel that I can help with, especially new posters.

The 'vibe' that has come from the committee through the magazine is that they are very pleased with how they have done and are patting themselves on the back. Don't get me wrong, I know running any club is a thankless task, but blowing sunshine up your own backside is the fastest way to rub people up the wrong way. Editing peoples posts in this thread who have made negative comments towards the club does little for the club PR.

The committee have done a good job, and deserve the praise, to a certain extent, but it's up to us to let them know when we feel that what has been done, wasn't quite right, or whatever, have you been in contact with anyone?

I don't know about the editing., but you can always PM a moderator asking why it has been changed.

. At the recent Stoneleigh Show the West Country Area were presented with the area banner by Mick Mellors (thanks Mick) and we were clearly identifiable. However, apart from my conversation with Mick no other member of the committee identified themselves to either myself or any other area members. Area secretaries are the backbone of a national club and can take responsibility from the main committee in chasing up members for subscriptions, etc. I received the first membership list over 10 weeks after RHOCaR were advised that I had taken over the area, I have subsequently received no more information so I am unaware who is a paid up member or not locally.

Yes, and I went to a lot of trouble getting those banners done for the Stoneleigh show. As to the membership list, did you mention it? obviously Tim has other things in his life as well as RHOCAR, but I know from past experience that if you ask for a list, one will be sorted within a few days.

My opinion is that if members have not paid their membership fee by the start of the year they should not receive the magazine, and ideally be denied access to the website as this should be a members benefit.

I will agree with you about the mags, if not paid, but the website doesn't belong to the club, and in my opinion is tempered just right.

people are not rejoining

That's nothing to do with what the committee do, that's up to the area sec. people want to use their cars, preferably along with others of the same persuasion, if information and organisation is forthcoming from the area sec, then there will be a healthy area. If on the other hand, nothing is organised, apart from what is fed down from the committee, then that's why people think that they are getting nothing from the club.

I'm sorry Trevor, but I get that feeling that you are in the same bracket of those that say " I've paid my £15, now what do I get?" please stand back and ask yourself, "what should I (as Area sec) have done on behalf of my members?"

[Guest chris brown]

Thanks to Ant and Bill I don’t have much to say except I don’t consider myself as a member of the inner circle or a outsider but a "member" in my time with the club I have always been welcomed by all other members ( even when turning up in a triad 3 wheeler)

if you post anything as an 'outsider' you appear to either get no reaction or a rebuff for posting such an insignificant item

When?

 

As for the committee patting there own backs "Bleep" "Bleep" :gdit: :gdit:

[Guest TerryBarry]

I'm sorry Terry, but I get that feeling that you are in the same bracket of those that say " I've paid my £15, now what do I get?"

 

Errrrr - What did I say Jim

 

Puzzled of Surrey

 

But seriously - I strongly endorse the opinions of Ant, Bill, Chris, Mat and Jim re' the "Rebuffs / Insiders comments ".

 

Terry

Edited May 19, 2004 by TerryBarry

[Big Jim]

oops! too much nuclear brown tonight!

[Shandylegs]

All

 

Over the last few days I’ve been reading this post with interest and thought I would throw my 2’penneth in as both an owner of a 3a and a member who has not renewed his membership this year:

 

Dealing with Tim’s original question: For me (And I’m sure others too) the main reason I have not renewed my membership is 100% down to laziness. I can count on 1 hand the amount of letters I have posted in the last few years (Probably even leaving some fingers as spares for the JS Jigtech workforce) without even getting onto finding where my chequebook is. Perhaps it’s time to give serious consideration to alternative methods of collecting membership fees? (N.B. If this meant extra work for the current committee I’m sure there would be plenty of people willing to help take some of the extra burden, be it IT or general legwork)

 

As to general comments on the on the Club I think there are 2 distinct areas to cover

Firstly the website:

If the site were made member-only things would stagnate at a quick pace with no new faces arriving on the scene. Perhaps the current lynch mob should think a little harder about things (Like how many posts did they write / contribute prior to becoming paid up members) before jumping on new community users backs. The flipside of this is that in life there are always going to be people who take more than they are prepared to give and I feel club members have a right to feel aggrieved where people have posted hundreds and in one particular case perhaps thousands of posts and then appear to stick two fingers up when someone mentions putting there hand in their pocket to become a club member. Perhaps the answer is the limit the amount of posts a non-member can make (Or even read only access?)

 

Secondly Club Scene/Shows:

I attend most shows during the year and while I can understand the comment made in an earlier post about it being hard to breakdown ‘inner sanctums’ you have to consider that the committee don’t get paid for running a club a have a right to a life themselves, how hard was it for you to go over and say hello instead of appearing to expect the red carpet to be laid out – Perhaps the old adage is appropriate in that you get out what you put in.

 

 

Thanks

 

Shandylegs (Non inner-sanctum member!) :D

[Guest Tim Norman]

What is an inner sanctum?. When we are at shows I talk to any body and everybody who comes up to me. We have potentially over 900 members and we can't be expected to remember all of the faces. I personally can only remember about 899. If you don't make yourself known then I'm sorry, I can't read minds and come and talk to you. Sorry if I've got hold of the wrong end of the stick but it is 6:10 on Thursday morning and the Sugar Puffs haven't kicked in yet.

[Guest Captain Daz]

My opinion for what it's worth.

 

There is no inner circle. Some guys post more than others, end of story. I am a less frequent poster but even so I have been receiving much help from the 'inner circle' guys over starting problems. Even from some that I have had 'differences' with on this site. There are no grudges here!

 

Perspective. £15 per year is £1.25 per month. That's a few pence per day for goodness sake.

 

There benefits are not just the mag. The benefit is the club itself. It's people of a like mind getting together. People giving up thier time to run it, run the web site, think up ideas.

 

Don't complain about £1.25 per month! Remember, no one makes a profit from it.

 

Don't think of what the club can do for you. Think of what you can do for the club!

 

Cheers to all

 

Daren

[Guest rizla]

well this is indeed intence,at the end of the day as people have said,you get out what you put in.

i myself have met and spoken to i recon 20-30 members,non-members and commitie members at only 2 shows and 1 rs jigtec open day,the reason ive spoken to these people and they to me is part due to them reading my postings on here,and that i am interested in meeting and chatting with everyone i can.

 

as of yet i dont have a car on the road(thats another story)but i have been made to feel nothing but wellcome by people on here and at the 2 shows ive been to

 

i have had my fair share of mickey taking(you know who you are)and i would not have it any other way,there are people on here that i have never even met and they take the pee out of me as if i was an old freind and i find that great and i return the comments

 

but my point is that a comunity is just that,many different people with different views all of witch have their merits and deserve a reply watever the subject and watever their club status

 

lifes to short to argue,you get more done in life by having friends

[Guest Bob's Babe]

:gdit: When Tim and the guys took over this club it had about 400 'official' members, a little difficult to be accorate as not all were on the database supplied by the last leaders. We were handed about £1000 in leftover money after they ran the club for 10 years. That is an old story. By the end of the fallout of Newark 2003 ...a good show for theboys!...Yes this is an an joke for those that know about the badly dressed girlies but who does it hurt ...anyway, by July 2003 that had moved to 800 members, all having paid! We now have about 920, of which about 180 haven't yet rejoined. Personally I think that 20/40 will do so as they did last year at Newark and the same at Donni, so no-one can say people are not rejoining.... many just haven't got round to it in 5 months....just typical men to me We also had nearly £2000 left in the bank, so by the end of this year shpuld be in a position to budget annually, so yes I will blow our own trumpet cos I think this is s success story! This club will succeed and do well with or without them, we will not force anyone to rejoin. The question was only about posting mags. If you want to question what you get from the club then you need only refer to what everyone is saying...YOU GET WHAT YOU GIVE... :gdit: DO NOT DENEGRATE (BIG WORD FOR ME) THE TIME, EFFORT AND COMMITMENT MY HUBBY AND HIS MATES GIV THIS CLUB. We will talk to anyone that comes up to us, most of us (not Pete) are big loud people willing to talk to all....But we do not know everyone so if you want a chat you have to tell us who you are

And I only ever post in here cos I know bog all about cars....Tim talks about it but, really? I'm a girl! I'm not a member do you want to shoot me for following the 'in jokes'. Get a life.

SUE

PS sorry, I just editted my own post, is this OK?