Engines 101

[nelmo]

Some very basic questions - I'm about to start my first build and I'm confused about what i get with an engine.

 

I plan on using a basic 2.0 L Zetec - nothing fancy. I see lots of blogs and posts about aftermarket throttle bodies, ECUs etc. When i look at places selling engines, none seem to explain exactly what you get for your money - would i expect an engine to have an ECU of some sort? Manifolds? Alternator? Pumps? Flux capacitor?

 

What should I expect to have to buy extra?

 

Sorry for stupid questions....

[sj-bradley]

A basic zetec doesn't come with much.

 

You will be looking for a shortened sump, inlet and outlet manifolds, either throttle bodies, carbs or GBS do a plenum which re-uses part of the crate engines original manifold.

 

You will also need some ECU whether it's Emerald or some other to control the engine. Possible water rail replacement and an alternator bracket with a suitable alternator.

 

That's for starters. I may have missed some bits. You could check my web site and see what was involved fitting a zetec to a zero.

 

Simon.

[agent_zed]

it also depends on how much you want to tinker. If you are careful and modify a few bits yourself you could take the wiring loom out of a escort for example and get the standard injection system to work. You'd probably ahve to cut and reweld the plenum chamber and perhaps have a key from the old ignition wiring under the dash in the on position to bypass any imobiliser but it could and has been done.

 

This would be cheaper than having to buy an aftermarket ecu and getting it mapped on a rolling road for example.

 

Throttle bodies would be nice but again you are into the territory of expensiveness. You'd need a manifold to suit and the ecu as above.

Edited May 14, 2015 by agent_zed

[knights_templar]

depends what power you want.

 

standard ECU will give standard power, Focus Zetec 128, acording to http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/ford/focus/hatchback-1998

 

After market ECU will give more but RR will be required, not cheap.

 

for comparison

 

Jenveys http://www.jenvey.co.uk/products2/throttle-body-kits/ford-zetec-tbp45-throttle-body-kit-ckfd03 176

 

ATR http://www.kitspares.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=_8&product_id=556&car= unknow

 

AT http://beta.atpowerthrottles.com/product_info.php/ford-zetec-45mm-p-59 176

 

GBS plenham http://www.kitspares.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=_8&product_id=628&car= 169

 

on same Zetec engine

[Guest 2b cruising]

steveDOHC2b has done this with a standard 2 ltr zeetec crate motor.

I'm sure he told me it came run read apart from exhaust manifol. This he used his old DHOC manifold with a new mounting plate.

I know he did it all for not a lot of money. Ping him and I am sure he will explain it all acurately for you.

[keith kelly]

If it's a 2b you will need a water rail but on a zero its not needed unless you want to be posh just extra cash for no reason.

[Guest arf!!]

don't forget gear box + starter

[nelmo]

I know i worked out a budget before i started which must have included these bits but it's a bit shocking when a box of electronics costs almost as much as an engine!

 

Thanks for all the replies :-)

[Guest 2b cruising]

How right you are about a little box of tricks Neil.

I am starting an engine convention at the end of the season and I find it really frustrating.

Like any parts, just mention hobby or racing and the price accelerates faster than any car.

I just keep searching and hoping. Fingers crossed I might get one.

[Guest davidm]

Go down to your local scrappie and find a mk2 Mondeo, 2 litre petrol, manual.

Relieve it of its ECU and master key (the one with the chip inside), plus the engine wiring harness.

Add the GBS plenum chamber, and you’ll have everything you need for about £325.

This compares with £2000 plus rolling road costs if you go the aftermarket route.

Unless you’re going racing, believe me, you’ll find the car will still be sh*t fast!

[Guest 2b cruising]

Hi David. I have chosen a slightly out of box conversion. Vauxhall z20 let.

Got most parts with engine, and more since. Vauxhall scrapper near me in Graves end.

Might be worth a trip round there someday soon.

Edited May 17, 2015 by 2b cruising

[knights_templar]

Ford ECU will require special loom, if you miss something it will go into limp mode, even if it dosen't it will never get the power an after market ECU can.

 

think factory "standard" is there for a reason?

[Snapperpaul]

The later PATS system was rumoured to need to see the dash cluster, some fitted that in a box somewhere under the dash and fitted aftermarket dials for the look.

There is the odd specialist around who has broken in deep to the ECU but that would cost some

[Guest davidm]

The standard Ford ecu doesn’t need a special engine loom to run the engine in a Zero.

Some wires aren’t needed and can be cut. A few others have to be lengthened or shortened, but the rest are mostly used ‘as is’.

The standard Ford ecu is set up for fuel economy, so yes - it’s true you’ll never get the same all-out power from it as you will from an aftermarket ecu, but you pay the price for that with your wallet.

There’s nothing magic or mysterious about the PATS system either. The chip in the key simply has to match the one in the ECU, and there are 3 wires to connect. It’s not a black art – lots of us have done it.

If anyone’s interested, I can give them all the info.

[knights_templar]

The standard Ford ecu doesn’t need a special engine loom to run the engine in a Zero.

Some wires aren’t needed and can be cut. A few others have to be lengthened or shortened, but the rest are mostly used ‘as is’.

The standard Ford ecu is set up for fuel economy, so yes - it’s true you’ll never get the same all-out power from it as you will from an aftermarket ecu, but you pay the price for that with your wallet.

There’s nothing magic or mysterious about the PATS system either. The chip in the key simply has to match the one in the ECU, and there are 3 wires to connect. It’s not a black art – lots of us have done it.

If anyone’s interested, I can give them all the info.

 

"special" was a nicer term for "cut and shunt" which is not everyones cup of tea, but certainly doable.

 

ECU including power and emmision maps http://www.kitspares...=680&search=ecu £714

P&P engine loom, http://www.kitspares...11&search=zetec £316.60

 

extra 41 bhp, purpose built, less work. and from your figures just over £700 more.

 

You pay your money and you take your choice , possible less satisfying though.

Edited May 17, 2015 by knights_templar