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SFX-Joe

Pinto Oil depth in sump?

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Hi people. 

Does anyone know what depth of oil you would hope for in a shortened sump? I have attached an image bellow showing with a pen mark how deep my oil would be if oil was on MAX mark on dipstick.... Seems a bit low to me yet its correct on the dipstick? I have checked dipstick length and bottom of tube to max line distance and all seems correct??

IMG_20190812_141427.jpg

Edited by SFX-Joe

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On an additional note... The RS2000 sump is 155mm deep at the deepest point... So around 35mm deeper at the lower end... Im tempted by a RS2000 sump and pickup.... tho the £300 + price tag is off-putting....

Also the sump would then be lower than gearbox housing.... Prone to damage from speed humps and so forth...? 

Edited by SFX-Joe

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Is the dipstick provided with the shortened sump? So the max mark is revised on the basis the sump is shallower? Because, forgive me for stating the obvious, but if it's the original dipstick then it will be completely wrong (will read too little - the max mark should be higher up the stick than it was originally).

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10 minutes ago, brumster said:

Is the dipstick provided with the shortened sump? So the max mark is revised on the basis the sump is shallower? Because, forgive me for stating the obvious, but if it's the original dipstick then it will be completely wrong (will read too little - the max mark should be higher up the stick than it was originally).

I don't honestly know... Its the same one the car came to me with so is what I have been using as a gauge for 8 odd years. However correct me if I am wrong... Surely the sump requires the same 'level' of oil even though the oil quantity needed to reach this would be less due to short sump...? In my head the oil level is the same on short or standard sumps? same distance from con rods / crank as that's a fixed point....

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Hydro test - So I wanted to see how much liquid it took to get to the line I drew on that matches the 'MAX' level on the dipstick.... It took 1.5 litres from empty to this bellow image.... Surely by the time the oil starts to pump and the rocker has some oil in it, say 1L or more.... Im left with next to nothing down bellow? 

 

Should the level be bellow the shallower part of the sump like it is? or should that also have liquid in it?

IMG_20190812_155827.jpg

Edited by SFX-Joe

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The sump is shortened but clearly hasn't been made wiser to get the capacity back up. Have you got a picture of the outside of the sump to see the general shape. 

http://nw.rhocar.org/sump.htm

 

Edited by richyb66

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3 minutes ago, richyb66 said:

The sump is shortened but clearly hasn't been made wiser to get the capacity back up. Have you got a picture of the outside of the sump to see the general shape. 

http://nw.rhocar.org/sump.htm

 

It has been made wider, behind the baffle is a box to add extra capacity... Image attached.

IMG_20190812_161756.jpg

Edited by SFX-Joe

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.and it still only hold 1.5 litres? Maybe the full level isn't correct after all

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If I do a full oil change with filter and so forth, I get just over 3 litres in it. I just did this test out of curiosity, this is the level when led flat, when in the car the engine is canted slightly forward - resulting in more oil needed to reach MAX mark...

Edited by SFX-Joe

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11 minutes ago, richyb66 said:

.and it still only hold 1.5 litres? Maybe the full level isn't correct after all

I have these measurements which according to the pinned post here are correct levels? 

I haver a short tube  measuring 24.5cm

With a distance of 12.5cm from MAX mark to tube base

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I believe that there are a couple of different length dip sticks but the big thing is the last the max mark should sit at the same height. You don’t want the crank frothing up the oil.

If you’ve hydro dipped the sump then you can work our depth of the dipstick max level against the bottom level of the sump as the sump is removed. 

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17 minutes ago, Dave Ed said:

I believe that there are a couple of different length dip sticks but the big thing is the last the max mark should sit at the same height. You don’t want the crank frothing up the oil.

If you’ve hydro dipped the sump then you can work our depth of the dipstick max level against the bottom level of the sump as the sump is removed. 

Yes I have done this. So I know that there is 30mm of oil in the bottom of the sump when the oil is on the MAX line on the stick. This doesn't seem much. Keep in mind that's measured when engine is off. Once its running their will be oil pumping around the system and in the rocker, I don't know how much this holds but im going to guess at least 1L?? This will drop the level in the sump considerably in the process?

Agreed, the max height on the stick will remain the same no matter what sump you have otherwise you run the risk of piston slap and forcing oil up the rings causing yet more issues.Also as you say, frothing the oil up. I know you can run a bit more than max safely but that's beside the point. The first pic I posted shows a line which is where the max level would sit.

Edited by SFX-Joe

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4 hours ago, brumster said:

Is the dipstick provided with the shortened sump? So the max mark is revised on the basis the sump is shallower? Because, forgive me for stating the obvious, but if it's the original dipstick then it will be completely wrong (will read too little - the max mark should be higher up the stick than it was originally).

I was always under the impression the max mark was more to do with proximity of the oil to the crank, so a standard dipstick tube and dipstick will still show the right level, even with a modified sump. 

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21 minutes ago, theduck said:

I was always under the impression the max mark was more to do with proximity of the oil to the crank, so a standard dipstick tube and dipstick will still show the right level, even with a modified sump. 

Agreed, that was my thought too. The fact a sump has been shortened or not should make no difference to the level at which the oil is required to sit. It will however require a different amount of oil to reach that mark...

 

However I think part of my issue may be where its been shortened that the oil from the max mark only goes down about 30mm deep the to bottom of the sump, resulting in very little depth. So as soon as you get any surge under braking / cornering the pump sucks air.... With me?

Edited by SFX-Joe

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Excuse my awful sketch but I hope this helps some people visualise the who oil level thing... Notice both have the same oil level, despite the sump being shorter or longer. The distance from the top of the oil to the crank should always remain the same, no matter what sump size you have. 

The only thing that will change is the amount of oil required to reach the max mark. The mark itself does NOT change.

 

IMG_0180.PNG

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