Roof and Door Solution

[Derek]

How to stay alive after soaking your wife.

I have been on a quest to have a useful roof and doors for my 2B for a few years, I think I’m at a point where I’m satisfied its as good as it gets. Not watertight but it seems to keep the worst of the weather out.

I fitted the RH weather protection initially but with the doors on I found it far too claustrophobic and not really rain proof. I guess I was short of patience to persevere with it and therefore the result was not what I wanted. I went to a show and one of the RHOCaR members had a “Surry” roof on his car, asking where he got it from, he replied, I make them. Beer tokens were exchanged, and I was a proud owner of one. There were a few ideas that helped me on my way (journey) to where I am now with this roof, but it was still lacking in a few areas. The roof used the same fastenings as the RH wet weather gear and the water came in between the roof and screen. I was still using the RH doors and they did not meet the roof at the top and there was no where to store them in the car. With doors off the water kicked up by the front wheels when I was turning right ended up in my lap, most embarrassing upon exit! Worse still during left turns the water ended up in my wife’s lap, don’t ask!

So first on the list was a solution to the wheel/water problem. I had seen a couple of cars with ½ screens on the bottom half of the “door” opening. I made a paper template that I thought would work and was off to see Chris at Topps Tarpaulins who made them a reality. They solved a couple of problems; there is hardly any water coming in from the wheels and they keep a lot of the draft off on long journeys on A roads and motorways. 

 

                                                                                                                 

Having solved the wet pants problem my attention went to the roof. Using the bought one as a template I was again at Chris’s discussing how it could be made better. I had seen cars with caravan awning rails fitted to the windscreen and we decided this was a good solution. Arial coax cable and the thickness of the material proved a great fit but still slides in easily.

                                                                                                                   

Next subject under discussion was how to stop the roof wearing out the hair out on the top of my head, it’s sending me bald. I found some stainless bar and tube which fitted the new purpose. The bar was bent to suit, and an angle bracket welded together to provide some over the head support. As everything must go in the boot, I cut the hoops in half and used tube to join the halves together.  The old roof had a hoop over the roll bar held on with bathroom bolts with the bolt taken out. OK time for a copy. B&Q have just the thing, 2 purchased, modified and pop riveted onto the roll bar. 

                                                                         

The next thing to consider was how to fasten the roof at the back. Fastened to the roll bar supports these seemed to be the best solution and have worked very well. This photo also shows the “all in the boot” rule being followed.

                                                                                                

                                                 

Ok I now had a fully functioning roof the doors were next on the list. Previously I had taken the old doors apart and cut metal frames in half so they would go behind the seats (new rule all in the car!)  I dismantled the doors completely and using CAD (cardboard assisted design) set about redesigning the frames. I kept the front metal forms as they would be correct for the new design. The rear top one needed modifying because the top of door would be longer the bottom one would remain the same or similar. Some bar steel was purchased and the whole lot was welded together. Chris again covered them and welded in the window. The material acts as the hinge between the top and bottom halves. I will come back to the doors in a bit.

    

Everything is going swimmingly well until we went out with the doors on and found the bottom half would flap up at any speed over 30mph. Not good, see wife getting wet! I came up with this temporary solution that has been in place for ?? years.  At the same time, I put on a tab that would hold the door closed.

                                                                                                               

This was OK but the roof and the doors tended to separate once under way which was annoying me. A rethink was needed. Over to see Chris again and discuss solutions. We decided to put zips along the top of the doors and inside the roof. I had to go away and think about this as how would I be able to do the zips up once I was inside or conversely on the outside. Chris said you can have double zips that do up from both sides, problem solved.

                                                                                                               

  

I had my roof, doors, and half doors to suit every occasion. This was great for a few years but eventually time catches up with you or more exactly your body. I have had two replacement knees which seem to have reduced my height by one inch, long story, I’m still 6’3” so folding up to post myself through the gap between the roof and the bottom of the door became an ordeal; unless the weather forecast said absolutely no rain forecast the car stayed in. Whilst out with the East of England bunch someone (apologies I cannot remember his name) had a Zero with the roof on and it had an access zip which gave much more room to get in and out. Its copy time again. Over to see Chris yet again, can you do something like this? “No problem” he said. The result is that we can get in and out much more easily.

                                                                                                            

    

It has taken a lot of time, much mental acrobatics, skinned knuckles, and a bit of cash, but I am happy with the result and can enjoy the car for a few more years. Oh and the best result my wife is reasonably happy but she does still monitor the weather forecast.

If you want any more detail of the process, please contact me (Derek) through the RHOCaR website.

Happy motoring.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Derek

[Kenner]

great job  I been deciding if I should make a roof for mine or buy one for £360.00. I am temped to make one as fabric isn't too expensive. I only need to top hood part as I striker has got the doors and side windows already.  

[AndyW]

What material did you use for the Surrey roof Derek? My new year project is to make a new one myself - if the sewing machine (and my lack of skill) is up to it.

[nelmo]

Unless you've done some fabric work like that before and have all the equipment, I'd recommend buying it - SoftBits are very good (although slow) and the quality is amazing.

I bought that marine vinyl for my doors and it wasn't cheap, so you're unlikely to save yourself too much...

EDIT: ok, it seems to be much cheaper than I remember, although I cannot actually find the same stuff I bought...however, I'd still get it made for you. Unlike changing brake discs, for example, a roof does require some skill and it can look VERY bad if you don't have that skill.

Edited December 21, 2023 by nelmo

[Derek]

45 minutes ago, AndyW said:

What material did you use for the Surrey roof Derek? My new year project is to make a new one myself - if the sewing machine (and my lack of skill) is up to it.

Hi Andy,

I'll give Chris at Topps Tarpaulins a ring and find out for you.

[AndyW]

Hi Derek,

I’ve seen this material mentioned before, which seems suitable.

https://www.profabrics.co.uk/products/6oz-pu-coated-nylon?variant=6809898435

A couple of meters to try won’t break the bank. And I have my existing Surrey top to use as a template, so just need cut and hem it.

[Derek]

OK, just spoken to Chris and he says..... 330g/m² Acrylic Canvas PU Coated. Which seems to be a bit heavier than the one you are looking at. But as you say its not too expensive to try.

I would suggest you look seriously at fitting a caravan awning rail to the top of your wind screen. I tried poppers, lift the dot, etc and never got a successful seal.

  

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Derek

[AndyW]

Thanks for asking Derek. So I’m on the right lines with that PU coated material. Looks like that company don’t do a 330 gsm, only a heavier weight 380gsm but that might be too thick to easily work and sew.

As you suggest I was already considering changing the windscreen mount to an awning channel with coax cable in the Surrey seam to slide in. I’ve got poppers along the top of the windscreen at the moment and they do allow some water to come in over the top of the screen in heavy rain. So I could remove the poppers and either screw or bond a rail on. Just need to work out how to make the curves for the edges 

[Derek]

I put the awning rail on the top of the screen surround. The curves I made by cutting a piece if wood, the same thickness as the awning rail, to the same radius as the screen surround. Mounting that between 2 larger pieces of wood so they would act as a guide. Then heating the rail and pulling it around the shaped wood. I must have put something into the groove of the rail to stop it closing up but I cannot remember what it was, perhaps a spring of some sort.

Chris, the expert, stitched the coax into a separate folded over piece of material, about 4in wide. Then Stitched that onto the main body of the roof.   

https://www.attwoollsmanufacturing.co.uk/product/330g-m²-acrylic-canvas-pu-coated-150cm-fabric/

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Derek

[IanS]

If DIY then I think that the main secret is to use a leather needle in the sewing machine, easily obtainable form most proper haberdasheries.

Further with a zip in the roof I have never had much luck with keeping water out with my toneau, it leaks through the zip unless parked perfectly level. I was a scuba diving instructor and used waterproof zips in dry suits which are expensive and delicate if not lubricated correctly. They all come from one factory in Japan even though they have several apparent sources to satisfiy military procurment diversity rules, would you believe that there are 3 seperately owned independant production lines under one roof? Hence the price.

I have baulked at the price of the very long waterproof zips given my experiance of thier limited life when abused. How good is your roof zip when stood overnight in rain?

I have not had problems with rain coming between screen frame a hood where the hood uses press studs on the front face of the frame, mind you having clam shell front wing might help here as there is less upflow to the top of the screen. Your mileage might vary. I think that the 4 layer construction I have to the front of the hood probably helps here as it keeps some pressure in the contact area from the hood to the screen, you can learn a lot from looking at convertable cars made from the 1930s to the early 1960s.

I admire your report and hopes that it encourages others to make thier cars most weather useable. I have driven my car hood up in gale force rain and stayed dry inside.

[Derek]

Hi IanS,

The zips were supplied by Chris, the expert, who makes all sorts of covers for boats etc. My zips are all covered by flaps so they are not exposed directly to rain or standing water and the roof is sloped so the rain runs off to the front when still or the back when moving. As the back is open to the elements when its parked outside I have a separate cover for those occasions. 

Thanks for the compliment and your comments; I too hope it encourages owners to use their cars more. 

[Shandylegs]

Being fairly tall I certainly know where you’re coming from in terms of trying to climb into something that seems the size of postbox opening.

20 years ago it was awkward, now getting in or out is embarrassing

My hood and doors are a really good fit so I’m going to explore having some zips put into the existing roof - thanks for the idea!

[Dave R]

when you bend the caravan awning, i regret making mine follow the windscreen down to the support brackets

if i did it again, i would make it slightly shorter, as the extra curve, means  you have to sew the coax in with a radius at each end, and its a bit of a sod to get right

[Dave R]

andyw if you want to come look at mine, free free

[AndyW]

13 hours ago, Dave R said:

andyw if you want to come look at mine, free free

Thanks for the offer Dave. I had a good look at Derek's Surrey top this week, so I'm probably ok on the awning rail and fixing.

I'm still pondering on whether to stay with my existing press studs on the screen, or change the front fixing to an awning rail. In the 3-4 times I've had to drive the car in rain over the past 6 years, I've not found that much water comes over the top of the screen between the material seam. I'm tempted to live with the current fixing to reduce the amount of work. Also, I tend to undo 3 poppers on the edge of the windscreen and fold the roof over as an aid to getting in or out of the car. I wouldn't be able to do that with an awning rail fitting.