Windscreen E Mark

[johnhetherington]

Can anyone clarify please, the windscreen that came with my 2B is marked as E17 and I intend fitting this for the IVA. But I have noticed that one topic mentioned the screen should have the mark EC43, I can't find this on the IVA regs, I know I can leave the windscreen off but don't particularly want to do that.

Any help or advise greatfully received.

Cheers

John

http://www.johnskitcar.com

[harvs]

Hi John

 

It's in section 45 Safety Glass...

 

 

Note 2: “Safety Glazing” made from glass must be so constructed or treated

that if fractured it does not fly into fragments likely to cause severe cuts. Each

piece of glass must display the following relevant permanent marking applied

by the glass manufacturer.

 

ECE Regulation 43

 

Not sure if they would be happy with a marking of an equivalent standard. ie if E17 is as good as E43 then they may be ok with it. You could try phoning your local IVA test centre to see what they say. Or you could just chance it....

 

Hope this helps

Harvs

[fry61]

Think you are allowed to use "old screen" up to end of April 2010 a dispensation for us slow beggers with "mature" kits.

[johnhetherington]

Thanks Guys, certainly wont be in a position to IVA it before April, I wish !!

I did find the section about the safety glass, thanks for that, but as suggested I think I will have a word with the nice man at the VOSA Centre.

Will let you know the outcome just incase it helps anyone else.

Cheers

John

http://johnskitcar.com

[Al Milton]

Hi John,

 

Guess from Rainham, your test centre will be Gillingham.

 

If the old screen E17 mark isn't acceptable and the EC43 requirement has to be met after the end of April, it may be worth investigating one of those fancy tinted electrically heated laminated screens (as fitted to Westies, Caterhams and Tigers), if they'll fit of course! Thinking about one of these myself, but only got as far as thinking currently!

 

It'll be interesting to hear Gillinghams' take on the windscreen regs.

 

Al

[johnhetherington]

Visited the VOSA centre in Gillingham today to clarify the E17 mark, as suspected, it does need the EC43 mark, apparently the E17 denotes the country of origin and the 43 is the spec. I spoke to Andy one of the examiners, very helpful and knowledgeable, he wasn't adverse to me not fitting the windscreen, he said the IVA is to check the car on the day of the test, nothing stopping me fitting the screen afterwards, which surprised me.

I also took the opportunity to ask him about the brake balance adjusting valve that I had fitted, a big No No, would definetely fail, I said how am I meant to balance the brakes, his response, by design !!.

Not the best of outcomes but much better to learn now than on the day of the test.

Very happy with Andy's help and he was more than pleased to give advice.

Oh well back to the drawing board.

John

 

http://www.johnskitcar.com

[Guest sadjagboy]

Thanks for clarifiying this, back to the attic for the screen then

[Guest smartfazer]

This is the marking on my W/screen which came with the kit from GBS.

 

Will this be ok?

 

Steve

 

[richyb66]

I've been having a look at the ECE43 regulation for the approval of safety glazing because we've got the regs here at work. For IVA purposes the relevant sections are 4 and 5 (just a couple of pages) which is good as it's a 146 page document.

 

Section 4 deals with the marking of the glass, specifically:

 

From Section 4.1 - "Every safety glass pane, including the samples and test pieces submitted for approval, shall bear the trade name of mark of the manufacturer. The marking shall be clearly legible and indelible."

 

Section 5 deals with the actual approval - what's shown on the glass which is additional to the markings described in section 4:

 

From Section 5.4 - "There shall be affixed conspicuously to every safety glass pane and double glazed unit conforming to the type approval under this regulation, in addition to the marking prescribed in paragraph 4.1, an international approval mark

 

This approval mark shall consist of:

 

5.4.1 a circle surrounding the letter "E" followed by the distinguishing number of the country which has granted approval (see note 1 below)

 

5.4.2. the number of this Regulation, followed by the letter "R", a dash and the approval number to the right of the circle prescribed in paragraph 5.4.1.

 

5.5. The following additional symbols shall be affixed near the above approval mark:

 

5.5.1. in the case of a windscreen :

I. for toughened glass (I/P if faced)

II. for ordinary laminated glass (II/P if faced)

III. for treated laminated glass (III/P if faced)

IV. for glass-plastics glazing.

 

5.6. The approval mark and symbol shall be clearly legible and be indelible.

 

Note 1:

 

The distinguishing numbers for the country of approval are as follows:

1/ 1 for the Federal Republic Germany, 2 for France, 3 for Italy, 4 for the Netherlands, 5 for Sweden, 6 for Belgium, 7 for Hungary, 8 for Czechoslovakia , 9 for Spain, 10 for Yugoslavia, 11 for the United Kingdom, 12 for Austria, 13 for Luxembourg, 14 for Switzerland, 15 for the German Democratic Republic, 16 for Norway, 17 for Finland, 18 for Denmark, 19 for Romania, 20 for Poland, 21 for Portugal, 22 for the Russian Federation, 23 for Greece, 24 for Ireland, 25 for Croatia, 26 for Slovenia, 27 for Slovakia, 28 for Belarus, 29 for Estonia, 30 (vacant), 31 for Bosnia

and Herzegovina, 32 for Latvia, 33-36 (vacant), 37 for Turkey,38-39 (vacant), 40 for The former ugoslav Republic of Macedonia, 41 (vacant), 42 for the European Community (Approvals are granted by its Member States their respective ECE symbol) and 43 for Japan. Subsequent numbers shall be assigned to other countries in the chronological order in which they ratify.

 

So Steve's glass marked as above would read as:

 

E1 - A glass approved for the federal republic of Germany

 

// - Ordinary laminated glass

 

43R - complying to ECE43

 

001664 - the approval number

 

So according to the regulation this glass is OK.

 

There does seem to be some confusion here where glass is marked E17, the letter and number marked in the circle doesn't have to say E43 to be compliant with ECE43. This affects me too as my glass does have E17 marked on it but I'm not sure what other marking is shown on the glass in addition to this.

 

Now that I've had the chance to read through the regulation I'll look at my screen tonight and get a photo of the marking on here so we can get a comparison as I know my glass is toughened, not laminated like Steve's, and see whether it would still comply.

[Guest smartfazer]

Thanks Richy,

 

A lot of effort went into your reply and it is appreciated....I am now much better informed.

 

Plus you have brought a smile to my face knowing that my glass is ok :D

 

You may also have just made up my mind about the "do I or don't I" question regarding fitting windscreen for IVA.

 

I'm going to go for it and fit it for IVA. :o

 

Steve

[richyb66]

OK, my glass looks like this:

 

 

E17 - A Glass approved for Finland

 

43R - Complying to ECE43

 

00230 - The approval number

 

The key element that appears to be missing is the glass identifier near the approval mark as per section 5.5.1, however as this is just a toughened screen and would therefore be just I or /, I can't see this will be a problem if you get my meaning.

 

In any case if people are planning on submitting screens for IVA then I'd suggest a visit to the test station beforehand with a copy of the ECE43 standard might save on disagreements on the day if they don't have a copy of the standard to hand. I will check over the next few days that I have the latest copy of the standard so that it can be made available to those who want it.

 

What might be helpful would be anyone who has passed IVA with a screen fitted could give details of the markings shown on their screen (in the format above) together with detail of which test centre passed the screen. That way we can get an idea of whether this is a problem at certain test centres.

[johnhetherington]

I have checked my screen again and it has exactly the same markings as Richy's screen, 43R and tempered.

As the VOSA centre is only 2 minutes from home I will take a picture of the markings with me to get it clarified, should have taken a pic in the first place doh.

I will let you know what the examiner says

Thanks for all your input

Cheers

John

http://www.johnskitcar.com

[richyb66]

I'm getting further confirmation of the latest ECE43 regulations at the moment, I should have more information soon.

 

John, you have a pm.

[richyb66]

Right, I now have the very latest copy of ECE43 from VOSA that I got this morning. The text is essentially the same as my earlier copy and it appears that the 5.5.1 marks to indicate the type of glass are a requirement.

 

The minimum requirements of the marking will be as shown in the table below - any other naming or tradenames aren't relevant. For our purposes I think we only need to consider TOUGHENED or LAMINATED screens which will be the first and third markings shown - photos of actual markings are shown in the earlier posts - one is compliant and the other one isn't.

 

Remember that the E4 referred to in the table below could be E1, E2 etc, just as long as it is a country from the list in my earlier post.

 

I have full copies of the regulation that I can e-mail if requested - just pm me your e-mail address.

 

[steve1506]

I have checked my screen again and it has exactly the same markings as Richy's screen, 43R and tempered.

As the VOSA centre is only 2 minutes from home I will take a picture of the markings with me to get it clarified, should have taken a pic in the first place doh.

I will let you know what the examiner says

Thanks for all your input

Cheers

John

http://www.johnskitcar.com

John

Did you get an answer to the markings on your screen. I also have the same markings as yourself so would like a steer as to if it will be acceptable for the IVA.

 

Steve