New Guy......1.6 Pinto Lack Of Power

[Guest kaisersolsay]

Hi,

 

I recently picked up my first RH and love the look, feel on the road and tinker'bility!

 

She's got a 1.6 pinto which i thought would have had a bit more power. In full chat, the little car struggles to top 65mph......on over run she pops and bangs which would suggest lean mixture??

 

Anyone else got a 1.6 pinto fitted? Keen to understand if this is all the power this unit will give.

 

Cheers

[Guest HS88]

Mine has a 1.6 and is relatively standard (32/36 weber carb, electronic ignition with dizzy on vacum advance and coil)

 

Not as fast as those fitted with the 2.0 zetecs but still fairly nippy. No problems getting to 70+.

 

Does sound a little rich perthaps..what setup are you running? Type 9 four speed gearbox?

[Guest kaisersolsay]

It's a type 9 5 speed with a 32/36 weber. Given the light weight of the car, it really should have more oomph. Starts and ticks over fine.

 

 

[Longboarder]

There are two 1.6 engines. One has the same stroke as the 1.8 and 2.0, the other the same as the 1.3. They behave a little differently one having a relatively longer stroke but either should get you over 90.

Starts easily suggests rich or retarded. Runs out of puff at 65 suggests retarded. Pops on overun is probably a hole in the exhaust and a little rich. Common fault which many people like to keep!

Start with the dizzy. If its Bosch with centrifugal advance then rejoice. Strip. Make sure the bob weights are free to move, their two springs are in good condition and pulling out the weights rotates the rotor arm relative to the drive gear at the bottom of the dizzy. Refit, time to about 12 degrees BTDC. You can use the vacuum pipe from carb to dizzy or not. Drive.

If it's a Lucas dizzy with ESC ignition module then you probably have the 1.6E engine which is a little lazier. Clean the dizzy, there are no bobweights. Time to 10 BTDC. The vacuum pipe from manifold to ESC unit is vital for timing and must not leak. Drive.

In both cases keep advancing ignition till you get pinking on hills, full throttle at 2000rpm in fourth gear. Back off ignition till the pinking goes. You are aiming to get as much advance as the engine can live with.

Carbs. Strip clean and identify. The ford VV for variable venturi is a single barrel carb and a bit of a dog. The webber twin choke DFTH is a different dog. Find the inline fuel filter and fit a new one. Make sure there are no air leaks into the inlet manifold. Just seen you have a 32/36 ?DGAV fitted. Strip and clean but this is the wrong carb and might be a bit big for the engine. That would mostly affect lower revs so it's not your current problem.

Other than that check plugs, leads, cam to follower gaps and cam timing if you are feeling capable. It's all in the sierra manual.

The 1.6 is never going to set the world on fire and even a good one will soon seem slowish. Easiest and cheapest change is to drop in a 2.0 pinto (you already have the carb!) over winter which completely changes the car.

 

Nigel

[Guest kaisersolsay]

Hi, it's an E-max engine and it's days are numbered! It's ok for tootling around the town but guttless on the open road. Will check out the above as noted by Longboarder, thanks for that!

 

My plan is to drop in a Cossie lump. I'm assuming it's a straight drop in given the pinto that's coming out. Will I need to mod the bonnet to make space for the turbo? The only other mod I see if moving the brake servo back to allow space for the turbo and down pipe.

 

Any tips?

[agent_zed]

in the very short term if you can be bothered (considering you want to replace the engine) is to fit a 2ltr camshaft. its a straight swap and gives a bit more duration and lift. reasonably noticeable as it becomes very slightly more cammy and needs to get above 4k to start going.

 

obv never going to light the world on fire but will cost about £10 for a second hand standard cam. Although either the engine needs to come out, hole in the scuttle or head off as the camshaft slides out backwards!

 

As for engine swap i don't know first hand but from what i've read on here you will need to consider: Exhaust is probably on the wrong side, mastercylinder in the way (either go remote or remove), ECU - megasquirt etc depending on whether you go injection route, custom manifold inlet/outlet?, new piping for radiator, new fuel pump, swirl pot (you probably don't have one at the moment), different starter motor, various clutch parts depending on engine. Possibly different radiator as current one may be too small, new air filter.

 

don't mean to put you off but its best you know what you need to buy/make before you bid on 'that' lovely looking engine on ebay etc Other will know far more than me so some of the above list may not apply but worth asking to be sure.

 

hth

[Snapperpaul]

Exhaust is the same side on the Cossy

You will probably need the 4x4 exhaust manifold.

Turbo can foul the master cylinder and steering column, Cossys have been fitted before just needs some thinking.

Straight 2.0L Pinto will give 20% more, add an injection head, FR32 cam and some bike carbs and you'll have twice your current output

Believe me 130bhp ain't bad in a Hood

[speedtripledan]

cossy engine into a hood = difficult and not cheap what about a zetec turbo or as snapper said a well tuned 2.0l pinto can give decent power

[Longboarder]

Did you build your cortina? If so then you should have no great problem changing a pinto for a Cossie and you already know that there is as much work to be done on suspension and brakes as in fitting the engine. The space in the engine bay is limited and the pipework turns into a bit of a jungle but no great problem. Question is 'How much power can a seven style car cope with or use before becoming lethal?' or perhaps 'How much power can a well modified RH 7 take?'. The monocoque RH 7's are a bit flexible and the suspension design is not great. The 2B is stiffer but arguably poorer suspension. Still way better than an average tin top and virtually uncatchable on the twisties but better suspension designs are available in different sevens which make them faster on track. The usable power limit for the road is around 200, perhaps 250bhp IMO. OK I'm getting a bit ancient, sadly neither mind, body or eyes work like they used to and my only links to Senna are buying it in Boots and racing to the bog.

Sevens are not about high top speed. They are as aerodynamic as your grannies piano and the wind buffeting and noise makes the driving tiring if you are doing a couple of hundred miles at motorway speeds. At 100 in my tintop I'm munching smarties, half listening to a CD, chatting to my passenger and wondering if I could push on a bit. At 100 in my seven (on track of course) I'm hanging on for grim death, deafened, wind blasted, trying not to worry about a big important bit of the car falling off and wondering why the heck I'm going so fast.

Sevens are much more about being totally involved in the car, feeling a part of it, getting the most out of the lightweight chassis and responsive excellent handling with enough power. Having fun on a trackdays is good although it can be a pain to be stuck behind some goon in a 400bhp hot hatch on a track day who corners 20 mph slower than you can but blasts off down each straight but they usually let you past eventually and you leave them for dust. Or you can always go and chase motorbikes on their local fun route and wonder why they go round corners so slowly.

I would echo Snapperpaul's advice. For less than a grand drop in a 2.0L pinto. Do a little work on the head, fit bike carbs and cams and play with that for next year while you work out how much power you really need. If you do find at this time next year that you need more power then don't go for an ancient heavy engine. Fit something lightweight like a Duratec or something from Honda or Toyota.

 

Nigel

[richardm6994]

At 100 in my seven (on track of course) I'm hanging on for grim death, deafened, wind blasted, trying not to worry about a big important bit of the car falling off and wondering why the heck I'm going so fast.

 

LMFHO!!! So true!

[Guest kaisersolsay]

Did you build your cortina? If so then you should have no great problem changing a pinto for a Cossie and you already know that there is as much work to be done on suspension and brakes as in fitting the engine. The space in the engine bay is limited and the pipework turns into a bit of a jungle but no great problem. Question is 'How much power can a seven style car cope with or use before becoming lethal?' or perhaps 'How much power can a well modified RH 7 take?'. The monocoque RH 7's are a bit flexible and the suspension design is not great. The 2B is stiffer but arguably poorer suspension. Still way better than an average tin top and virtually uncatchable on the twisties but better suspension designs are available in different sevens which make them faster on track. The usable power limit for the road is around 200, perhaps 250bhp IMO. OK I'm getting a bit ancient, sadly neither mind, body or eyes work like they used to and my only links to Senna are buying it in Boots and racing to the bog.

Sevens are not about high top speed. They are as aerodynamic as your grannies piano and the wind buffeting and noise makes the driving tiring if you are doing a couple of hundred miles at motorway speeds. At 100 in my tintop I'm munching smarties, half listening to a CD, chatting to my passenger and wondering if I could push on a bit. At 100 in my seven (on track of course) I'm hanging on for grim death, deafened, wind blasted, trying not to worry about a big important bit of the car falling off and wondering why the heck I'm going so fast.

Sevens are much more about being totally involved in the car, feeling a part of it, getting the most out of the lightweight chassis and responsive excellent handling with enough power. Having fun on a trackdays is good although it can be a pain to be stuck behind some goon in a 400bhp hot hatch on a track day who corners 20 mph slower than you can but blasts off down each straight but they usually let you past eventually and you leave them for dust. Or you can always go and chase motorbikes on their local fun route and wonder why they go round corners so slowly.

I would echo Snapperpaul's advice. For less than a grand drop in a 2.0L pinto. Do a little work on the head, fit bike carbs and cams and play with that for next year while you work out how much power you really need. If you do find at this time next year that you need more power then don't go for an ancient heavy engine. Fit something lightweight like a Duratec or something from Honda or Toyota.

 

Nigel

 

Hi Nigel,

 

Yeah I built the Cortina, its taken 4 years and still have a few buts a bobs to complete. I'll post some pictures.

 

I had a tweak around with the ignition timing and advanced the maximum point that she wouldn't pink and she now feels a lot better.....although still not setting the heather alight, she'll comfortably hit 85mph (where the law allows).

 

I'm going to go for a 2.0 pinto as suggested and monkey around with it. I need a good 6 months under my belt to get used to used to how she handles etc anyway.

 

One thing that I definately need to sort out is the steering wheel position, it's far too low and the steering wheel currently fitted is way too small. Anyone got any advice on how to raise the steering column?

[Guest kaisersolsay]

Or.....perhaps a zetec.....would make more sense with 136bhp straight out of the wrapper?

 

Anyone got a list of parts required other than the obvious loom & ecu? Does anyone sell the engine and gearbox mounts off the shelf?

[Snapperpaul]

The problem fitting a Zetec in place of a Pinto is induction and exhaust are on opposite sides, typically the master cylinder is in the way and it's not easy or cheap to change on a monocoque.

[Guest kaisersolsay]

The problem fitting a Zetec in place of a Pinto is induction and exhaust are on opposite sides, typically the master cylinder is in the way and it's not easy or cheap to change on a monocoque.

 

Hmmm......I'm thinking perhaps Cossie power after all then.

[richardm6994]

I considered an upgrade from 2.1 pinto to zetec for this winter mods (monocoque exmo) but gave up on the idea because of the difficulties which have already been pointed out..........then I thought about a cosworth but soon gave up when I saw how many pound-notes I'd need. Finally I decided......bugger it....stick a V8 in

 

Should be a straight forward enough conversion and not cost too much money (said whilst touching wood )