2 Litre Pinto Turning Over Very Slowly

[Guest Alan_builder]

There is only 2 reasons it won't crank properly:-

 

1 Mechanical

2 AT

 

The only mechanical thing I have not seen is the starter being skewed.

 

AT - Stands for Ampere Turns, Flemming is credited with 2 rules one for motors and one for generators Left and Right hand rules. The force on a conductor depends on the current flowing through the conductor and the magnetic field strength the conductor is in. Now the field strength being an electro magnet depends on the current flowing in the wires and the number of wires and the inverse length of the air gap in the magnetic circuit. (A simplification). So the force you starter motor produces is dependent on 2 electric currents and the mechanical design of the starter motor. Given that the design of the starter motor has not changed it's all down to the current. Now the winding resistance can't change only if it goes open circuit, but there are other components; wires and switches. Now it's unlikely that the wire can change it's resistance but they can become corroded under the sleeving and go open circuit, not likely with the starter wires. The current is also dependent on the battery voltage, yes while cranking (I don't remember seeing that figure only that it was fully charged)

 

So the answer is a mechanical problem either, we are looking at contact resistance or battery condition. Yes that is mechanical, it's sulphated and lost it's capacity due to failure of the mechanical seal or impurities in the electrolyte.

 

Simple call a mechanic not an electrician.

 

(Some jest included)

[Snapperpaul]

Tried 2 starters = slow

Plugs in or out = slow

Jumping battery = slow

 

Have you tried cranking with foot on clutch?

This should make no difference as the gearbox is in neutral but we are struggling with reasons.

 

Try direct earth to starter motor bolt.

If no better try swapping battery with known good one.

 

The only other thing I can think of is static ignition timing to advanced but with plugs disconnected cranking was still slow

[fry61]

Flemings Right & Left Hand Rules There's a name from the past if ever----can't remember now (50years & no google) what the thumb, forefinger & index finger represented. The passing years have found differing uses for those digits.

[eddieH]

Thank you for all the suggestions and offers of assistance.

 

To answer a few questions:

 

We do have a starter button switch, but this doesn't take the full starter current - it just activates a relay which in turn supplies the solenoid;

Tried foot on/off the clutch in case the clutch was dragging but it made no difference;

We don't have a battery isolator switch fitted;

The flywheels / ring gears were absolutely identical as far as we could tell - I think we fitted the one from the 1.6 just because it was shinier! The two starters we tried both had the same number of gear teeth.

 

It does sound like we need to carefully check the connections from the battery to the starter and the engine earth, and try bypassing each in turn with some heavy-duty jump leads to isolate the problem. Unfortunately I'm away from the car for the next couple of weeks but I'll take another look when I can and report back on the results. If it's still not going, I'll get some biscuits in and invite everyone round for a cup of tea / head-scratching session!

 

Best regards,

 

Edward

[Guest woolly]

Could be handy to know the voltage at the starter whilst cranking and the battery volts

 

[biksz]

i have got a 1.8 pinto in mine and would not even turn over untill i connected the alternator which made the full electrical circut then would turn over and start not sure if this helps.

[sj-bradley]

Left hand rule: (motors)

 

thuMb - Motion

seCond - current

First - Field

 

point like a gun with second pulling trigger. (Not the guy from only fools and - Oh never mind ...

 

Simon.

[Andi]

I had these problems and it turned out to be a dodgy worn plug to the alternator

Andi

[eddieH]

Hi all,

 

A quick update:

 

We spent a few hours on Sunday looking at the electrics and we think we've got it turning over at a fairly decent speed - not absolutely whizzing round, but ok. Despite the battery appearing to hold a charge, the voltage across it was dropping to about 8 V when cranking so we've fitted a new one which is doing a lot better.

 

However, the engine still won't start! Is anyone free anytime this coming weekend to share some of their experience in return for copious amounts of tea / coffee and biscuits? The car is in Whiteley, just off junction 9 of the M27.

 

Or, failing that, does anyone have a car trailer we could borrow so at least we could get it home?

 

Thanks again,

 

Edward

[theduck]

What carb are you using? May have a fuel cut off valve, have you made sure this is connected to a switched live?

 

Have you tried easy start in the carb?

 

Are you getting spark?

 

Failing all the above, loosen the dizzy retaining bolt and turn the dizzy slowly while someone crank engine, when it fires into life, tighten in that spot. Obviously you will need a timing light to do it properly.

[Guest arf!!]

HAVE YOU GOT A BALLAST RESISTOR FITTED

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ballast+resistor&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=ilVLUanxDsPAPJiJgLgF&sqi=2&ved=0CEMQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=643

[eddieH]

Well, it's working now!

 

A massive 'thank you' to Chris for coming round and spending his entire Saturday in a cold garage working through the issues.

 

It turns out that both of the starter motors we were using were struggling under load, even with an improved earth connection - a third one has plenty of oomph to turn it over though! A lack of fuel getting to the carb was fixed by using a different fuel pump and bypassing the old Sierra vapour separator / pressure regulator unit. I'd fitted the distributor incorrectly too - it was only out by about 90 degrees - oops! An oil leak was fixed by straightening out the rocker cover and fitting a new gasket. With it running, Chris even got the timing spot on using his strobe light so it's set up perfectly now.

 

Not only is the car back on the road, but I've learnt a lot about the pinto engine too - thanks again Chris!

 

Best regards,

 

Edward

[Guest MarkB]

Well, it's working now!

 

A massive 'thank you' to Chris for coming round and spending his entire Saturday in a cold garage working through the issues.

 

It turns out that both of the starter motors we were using were struggling under load, even with an improved earth connection - a third one has plenty of oomph to turn it over though! A lack of fuel getting to the carb was fixed by using a different fuel pump and bypassing the old Sierra vapour separator / pressure regulator unit. I'd fitted the distributor incorrectly too - it was only out by about 90 degrees - oops! An oil leak was fixed by straightening out the rocker cover and fitting a new gasket. With it running, Chris even got the timing spot on using his strobe light so it's set up perfectly now.

 

Not only is the car back on the road, but I've learnt a lot about the pinto engine too - thanks again Chris!

 

Best regards,

 

Edward

its what makes this club the best, glad you got it sorted

[fry61]

Great news Ed, & well done Chris;I did think about you yesterday in the cold;while I sat by the fire;don't suppose it helped much though!!

[chris n]

Your welcome Edd. Thank you for the tea and biscuits and John for his hospitality.

 

A tale of 3 starter motors, fuel pump and dizzy.