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when at donnington i noticed several zeros with the rear passenger side wheel cocked out.

ie the wheel is not in alignment with the car , its an easy fix and a lot of the kits have this prob .

remove the rear wheel hub and fit 2/ 3 1mm spacers to the rear of the hub mounts , not the whole mount just the rear 2 bolt mounts .

 

regards graham

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hi nick

the prob is with the jig , i first found the prob when trying to sort out the geometry for the road .

i placed a steel 2x2 box section along the rear wheel , and found the exit point the line nearly a foot from the start point

i rang gbs , to be told they had an issue with the jig they said they had an issue with 1 jig and how to sort it.

 

a 300mm prob at front equates to a 2mmprob at the rear easy to sort out

graham

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with respect.

 

I understand the "jig issue" refered to, related to the ease of build and was corrected years ago, the jigs were re built shortly after GBS took over, and new jigs made for the GT version when it became avalible.

 

there is always going to be some "build tollerence", which is why the suspention is "adjustable"

 

the factory advises that the geometry is checked and set on all vehicles after build, as stated above this is a simple operation, and should be rechecked on occasions during service, as build standard and genral wear and tear will take a greater toll on solid bushes than the rubber type of mass produced cars.

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With the same respect this sugests an oportunity for gbs at shows to improve the quality of the breed. A positive effort to examine their amateur built cars, looking for bits that we punters are getting wrong. Then amending the build instruction or pointing out the pitfalls could improve the assembled product. They're all Richard's babies.

 

Nigel

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With the same respect this sugests an oportunity for gbs at shows to improve the quality of the breed. A positive effort to examine their amateur built cars, looking for bits that we punters are getting wrong. Then amending the build instruction or pointing out the pitfalls could improve the assembled product. They're all Richard's babies.

 

Nigel

 

I agree, but would other builders.

 

would this not be taken as a criticism of someone’s build or worse still an attempt to make money.

 

the thing is, the information is available, advise is available, the pit falls ARE discussed, however, as you are aware Nigel from our PM's, the information on the "internet" is provided by well meaning and very able contributes, who have a lot of experience of THEIR vehicle, of what THEY did, and off what THEY were advised, with little or no, knowledge of the current Zero, the changes that have, and are being applied, and the regulations in effect NOW.

 

for example.

 

as off June 2013, NONE of the current "in build" Zero's comply with IVA, this includes the factory cars, AND all other kit producers, including the big boys.

 

to be fair, most of the test stations have not realised the change either, the one that found out in August has queried the changes, and it may well be reversed, but it might stand.

 

this information is available, a mod is in place, and those that refer to the factory are updated. those that don't? or those that seek advise on this site?.

 

Is that the fault of the factory?. I'm sure some will argue that the factory should chase all the previous purchasers, who may or may not have taken their vehicle for IVA, would that be practical?

 

I didn't see any way of adjusting the geometry of the wishbones on my build. Is there an easy way to check these rear wheels? As I have suspected the nearside rear for some time now.

 

Thanks,

Simon.

 

checking is very easy, with the right kit. Dunlop gauges reversed, and read backward, lazer alignment at your local tyre shop, or a simple string around the car. google "wheel alignment", this approach will always come up.

 

Adjustment is with shims, available from the factory, the same method that the older kits have used for years to get a rear suspension designed for a much heavier car to work with a kit, think they refer to them as wedges. the Zero does NOT require anywhere near that amount of adjustment they required as the sub assembly is totally replaced.

 

all kits going to the factory for IVA are offered a geometry check and adjustment, but the service is available to everyone.

 

To be truthfull, in "normal" use, Zero's have always been close enough out of the box, certainly 2009 onward, if you suffer unusual tyre wear, or the driver is capable and wanting to get the best track times then there is a case for having the suspention set. but for the road?

 

the man hole cover half way around the bend, the pot hole or the white line will have more effect on handling than a slightly out of alignment rear suspention.

 

wheel alignment should not be confused with the tendancy for the near side wheel to run close to the wing. the cause of that is known, in build correction is avalible and has been corrected in manufacture some time ago.

 

Anyway, as ever, just my opinion, not wishing to offend, and with the greatest of respect to those that have gone before.

 

PS

 

Simon, no further update to what we discussed, thanks again for your input, I will PM you with an update as soon as I have an answer.

 

Regrads

Edited by knights_templar
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Why do none of the builds comply with IVA now? What's changed?

 

IMO I would say that the company should chase the customers, make them aware and offer a solution FOC as the product is no longer fit for purpose if it won't pass IVA (regardless of test stations realising or not)

 

The rear wheels on my Mazda Kit appear to be dead on, never looked too closely, the fronts however is an absolute nightmare (maybe the same on the Ford based?)

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as the product is no longer fit for purpose if it won't pass IVA

 

What if you was building a zero for the track? would it then not be fit for purpose?

 

Fit for purpose is a legal statement, and in the eyes of the law GBS wouldn't be deemed in the wrong as it is the responsibility of the builder to ensure that the car presented at the IVA has been built to the current standards.

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Why do none of the builds comply with IVA now? What's changed?

 

IMO I would say that the company should chase the customers, make them aware and offer a solution FOC as the product is no longer fit for purpose if it won't pass IVA (regardless of test stations realising or not)

 

The rear wheels on my Mazda Kit appear to be dead on, never looked too closely, the fronts however is an absolute nightmare (maybe the same on the Ford based?)

 

As above, the change may not take effect at all due to some wording issues. however the information is on GBS forum.

 

lets be realistic. If something is produced with every regard to the legislation at that time can you expect a manufacturer to be responsible if that legislation suddenly changes, especially as many builders change away from the factory product to make the vehicle individual to them, or to source parts they perceive to be cheaper elsewhere.

 

If you are unshure of the front suspention I would seek proffesional advise, if its wrong you place yourself and others in danger.

 

Geometry is not part of the IVA

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I meant as in a courtesy phonecall to let the builders know that something has changed, offer a solution. If its something structural with the chassis, I would expect the company to help rectify this. (Hence fit for purpose statement - I would expect the company to provide a product that gives the builder the best chance of passing the IVA without having to make heavy modifications - eg. I wouldn't buy a kit where the roll bar still needs to be made and fitted) If its something more simple like the seats need to have certification of strength or cycle wing angles/positions have changed, then no problem, the call would be nice. As I said before, what's changed? Last I heard of the GBS forum was on here there was quite a big slating for it being posted and advertised on here I think...?

 

I know the geometry isn't anything to do with the IVA, I was just stating my experience with my kit as it's 1) not a common kit on this forum yet and 2) the original post was about wheel alignment at the rear of the Zero

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A lot of amendments to the IVA regs came in to force in June 2013, most were just wording changes or reference links in the manual.

I beleive the one that may render cars non compliant is the one detailed below that relates to the rear fog lights:

 

Note 4:

 

Either of the following applies:

1) The rear fog lamp(s) may continue to operate until the position lamps are switched off, and the rear fog lamp(s) must then remain off until deliberately switched on again or,

2) An audible warning, additional to the mandatory tell-tale light, must be activated if the ignition is switched off or the ignition key is withdrawn and the driver's door is opened, whether the lamps in (RS4) are on or off, whilst the rear fog lamp switch is in the "on" position.

 

 

 

If you're using sierra column switches or similar and separate fog light switches you may struggle, but it can be done. A friend took his kit for test the day after these amendments came into force and he had managed to solve this issue with some electronics. As it was the test centre weren't aware of the change and didn't test for compliance.

I can't remember what he did, but I'll get the info from him and post it up

 

If that is the issue I think that KT is being a bit sensationalist, if not and it's something more serious or in depth he should at least be highlighting what it is.

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In Steve's post Note4 part 1 it says they MAY stay on doesn't mean they must & any how this is a minor prob that can be overcome with a relay & in a similar fashion to the circuit already employed -- I.E the rear fogs can only be on with high/dip main lights.

 

Just to move this discussion further off topic of first post ---- The EU have proposals in the pipe-line for all new vehicles to have speed limiters fitted to operate when-ever & where-ever the vehicle exceeds the limit for that section of road. So we will all play "trains" on the motorway;nose to tail at 70.

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