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Posted

Hi Folks,

Long time lurker, mechanically inept, benefactor of Mr Al Milton's excellent work on his 2B Super that means I have had to do little (nothing) mucky with my motor in the 5 years of ownership.  Recently pulled it out of the garage after a long period of inactivity to sell it, fell in love with it again instead.  Wife most pleased!

The front wheels don't point in the same direction.  This was a known issue on purchase, isn't enough to make it undriveable, but does make for some interesting performance under hard braking.  I set the friendly local garage the task of putting it right during a service and MOT but they said they had adjusted it as much as they could, but it was still out.

My understanding is the hub needs to come off and go back on straighter.  I've had a look and as far as I can see it'll be the toe arm that determines whether or not the hub is straight, and this is the part they were adjusting in the first place.  To my mind its maybe the wrong toe arm length to begin with? Could someone point an idiot in the right direction here please?  Which bit should I be looking to fettle?

I plan to use some (long) aluminium angle clamped to a tyre-less wheel in order to align against the rear wheels.  Any problem with this?

Thanks!

Posted

Hi Ben

This is an odd one.   I haven't heard of any other Superspecs (I am reliably informed that it is NOT a 2B deritative, it is a model in it's own right) having tracking problems.   Mine was way out when I bought it, but that manifested itself not in handling, but in excessive tyre wear.  But my local garage had no problem adjusting it to the correct figure (a slight toe-in).   And you are correct, you need to adjust the track rod (the one from the hub to the steering rack).

What symptoms are you seeing on hard braking ?  

BTW, a very crude tracking check is to push the car.   If you can physically move the car then the odds are the tracking is not bad.

Posted

As above doubt very much it'a anything to do with the hub, unless it's been in an accident & the arm on the hub has bent, but it would be unusual as normally the arm from the rack would bend first. No idea which track rods it uses but sometimes you can get different track rod ends with longer arms, I know when we used to put the Mini engines at the back we used to buy another version of the track road end where the arm was longer which made it easier to lock the steering off. So potentially if somebody in the past has put longer arms on then there might not be enough thread left to pull the wheel in to get the correcct toe. This is all complete conjecture obviously 

Posted

Has it got normal tie rods ie. they're on a threaded arm? If so, just try get a proper alignment (and no, you can't do it by eye). Two methods; a dubious process using string and long pieces of wood (do a search on here) and better is to find someone with one of those home laser alignment kits (or buy your own - about £70 I think).

Posted
21 hours ago, nelmo said:

and better is to find someone with one of those home laser alignment kits (or buy your own - about £70 I think).

You know of a laser alignment system for £70 do you have a link?

Posted

Ben:   I've got one of these (it's out on loan but can easily get it back) so when I am back from holiday I'll come down and we can experiment.

Al

  • Like 1
Posted

Thanks folks, tie rods don't appear damaged and have the normal threaded adjustment.  Reading replies and having let it percolate I realise that in my mind one wheel was straight and the other heavily toe-ed in, but I now of course realise that's daft and actually both wheels would be toe-ed in a little when driving.  I have asked a trustworthy garage to realign and they said they can't because they had reached the limit of adjustment on the arms, so I'm confident it is less straightforward than a toe adjustment on the arms.  It was a while ago but I recall they definitely suggested removing and refitting the hub.  My thinking was I could make an adjustment by eye/jig/strings/magic to as close to 0 toe as possible whilst sitting in the middle of the adjustment on the toe arms, thereby allowing a garage with the right kit to adjust using the thread to the proper toe in (would be happy to hear what I should be asking for!).  I'm guessing from the replies that there is no way to do this and it is potentially an issue of the toe arms being too short and needing newer/longer ones?

Given my misunderstanding of the situation I now wonder whether perhaps I have a brake bias issue instead?

The car does pull a little when driving normally, but not so much that it bothers me or hampers handling.  When I brake hard the car pulls harder (dependent on brake) and it is always one wheel that locks before the other (I can't recall which now, retesting required).

The car is easily moved around by hand, so now I'm thinking perhaps the toe is a red herring?  I'll drop by the garage and ask for a clearer explanation I think before I dig myself a deeper hole.

Alan I'd be very grateful for the assistance of a grownup.  Happy to come to you if its easier, you're about an hour away!

Posted

One front wheel locking before the other can be due to corner weight problems.

The spring platforms are I assume adjustable.

It can be that one diagonal takes more weight than the other diagonal so the weight on each front wheel is different.

 

Posted
2 hours ago, Ben Powers said:

Alan I'd be very grateful for the assistance of a grownup.  Happy to come to you if its easier, you're about an hour away!

No need, my daughter lives near Kettering, I'm there quite often.😀

Posted

I too vouch for Trackace - I have the kit and in my view, it’s a must have for any kit builder/tinkerer. Seeing as the tracking is all done with the car on the ground, it’s far more realistic and accurate than tracking that’s done on car lifts. I’ve always been very happy with the results of my self tracking using it. I think I got mine for £60-70 but yes, it’s gone up, but even then, you can pay that for one tracking session at a tyre place these days so it really does pay for itself. Re track rod ends and getting the reach right - if you’re finding that you don’t have sufficient thread on the track rod, you can get extenders. There was a kit I was building about a decade ago that needed some owing to the rack (a Sierra one I seem to remember) not reaching wide enough for the hubs and I seem to remember getting my extenders from a site called Rallydesign. They have lots of goodies like that.

Posted

What a helpful lot you are 👍🏼

I'll grab some in advance of Alan's visit and that should put it to bed then.

Went for a quick blast yesterday to remind myself of the handling issue.  It pulls right under hard braking, and the nearside front tyre always breaks traction first.  I tried this in the middle of the road so as to eliminate a dirty/slippery nearside as the cause.

Will look at brakes/corner weighting as a separate issue I think.  I am a *considerable* unit so corner weights being askew may well be a good shout.  Have done some YouTube revision on adjusting drum brakes, just in case my issue is the fronts are doing all the braking (the rears have never locked).

Thanks again 🙂

Posted
3 hours ago, Ben Powers said:

and the nearside front tyre always breaks traction first. 

My money is on corner weighting.   We’ve seen this behaviour before, caused, we think, by a bent chassis.

  • Thanks 1

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