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SFX-Joe

Pinto High level of oil in rocker

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Hi guys,

I don't know if any of you may be able to help but here we go....

I have rebuilt my pinto 2.0l. New main bearings, and ground down crank, new oil pump, new spray bar, new water pump, new thermostat, bath blah. 

I had a problem before taking it apart of oil pressure dropping to 0 when braking up to lights or taking a sharp left turn... would pick back up to 15 odd psi in a few seconds once stopped or back straight.

I have now rebuilt it... Still the exact same issue. I did change the oil pump for a high pressure one in the rebuild... I mean why not at the price tag they have... Now then here is the interesting bit... I run the car and it seems to fill the rocker cover with about an inch + of oil if not more. Surely this should be draining quicker than it is? 

My though process is... To much oil pumped to the rocker, not draining quick enough, therefor leaving low oil level in the sump. Brake or turn left and you surge the oil away from the pickup causing air to be sucked up and losing pressure....

However... nothing has changed in the engine so why would it start doing this all of a sudden? The only difference since rebuild to the system is high pressure pump and spray bar.... When driving normally and running hot she holds around 20psi oil pressure on tick over and more on higher revs.

Any Ideas?

 

Running 2.0l pinto - High pressure oil pump - 10 40 oil - new rod and crank bearings (correct size). New oil sensor (Also fitted mechanical gauge to check and its the same reading)

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Just now, Brian spencer said:

Faulty gauge possibly? Try a different one to eliminate the gauge first .

Done already.

Fitted a 'TEE' and installed a new mechanical gauge along with new digital sensor. Both read much the same at all times. 

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Is your sump modified and has it got a baffle plate in. If modified is there a reduction in the amount of oil it holds less oil in sump less to go round, my sump has been cut down and holds less if you read the dip stick.so mine is just over the max to allow correct amount required.The oil return holes are large can’t see it be stored up top. 

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5 minutes ago, Brian spencer said:

Is your sump modified and has it got a baffle plate in. If modified is there a reduction in the amount of oil it holds less oil in sump less to go round, my sump has been cut down and holds less if you read the dip stick.so mine is just over the max to allow correct amount required.The oil return holes are large can’t see it be stored up top. 

Yes modified sump, but with extra box on the side to keep capacity as close to the original as possible. I have had the car 8 years, only recently has it started to do this so I doubt it can be the sump or oil level as its never been a problem before. The sump does also have a simple baffle in it to help with surging. 

I have tried over filling the sump a bit but same symptoms still. 

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Tell us more about your sump and pick up pipe, have you fitted a gasket between the pipe and the pump? What breathers do you have on the engine, and you should be using 20-50 oil

ps.There is a good reason for the max mark on the dipstick!

Edited by Peter Bell

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I tried 20 - 50 oil. Same issue once it was hot. Higher pressure when cold by a few PSI but nothing to shout about.

Yes gasket between pickup and pump. a little gasket sealer between pump and block. New drive and new locator dowel. I checked the pickup (because its modified) for air leaks when I took it out and all seemed perfect. Hand over the pickup and sucking / blowing the other end, no holes or leaks.

Straight breather from block to catch tank. Straight breather from cam cover to catch tank. Both venting to atmosphere freely. Large bore pipe not piddly little ones. 

As stated before, the setup has been the same for my 8 years of ownership so surely it should have been ok to not cause a problem before? yet now it does this.

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Is the top of the block parallel to the ground in side view? 

If it is, the front of the engine is too low so oil will pool in the head instead of running to the back and down in to the drain holes. 

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4 hours ago, SFX-Joe said:

I run the car and it seems to fill the rocker cover with about an inch + of oil if not more. Surely this should be draining quicker than it is? 

My though process is... To much oil pumped to the rocker, not draining quick enough, therefor leaving low oil level in the sump. Brake or turn left and you surge the oil away from the pickup causing air to be sucked up and losing pressure.... 

That seems like a reasonable explanation and it was happening both before and after the rebuild, suggesting the rebuild has not addressed the problem. Now you could be pumping excessively to fill the rocker cover or the draining is restricted in some way. Long time since I gazed at a pinto head with the rocker cover off. The engine has to be level for the oil to reach the drain holes. The holes must be open and unobstructed. A nut or bolt could easily find its way into them without passing through and cause an obstruction. Any missing? Can't remember where and how many there are but I would have the rocker and sump off and probe each drain hole with a magnet on a telescopic rod, them a wire coat hanger and a bottle brush to ensure they are clear.

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10 hours ago, richyb66 said:

Is the top of the block parallel to the ground in side view? 

If it is, the front of the engine is too low so oil will pool in the head instead of running to the back and down in to the drain holes. 

In the S7 they are coated slightly forward. There is a drain hole at the front but the larger one is at the rear. However this is the same since she was build over 10 years ago with no issue? Also nothing I can do about the canting forward, just how it is. It did cross my mind to weld an elbow to the rocker and another to the sump with large bore 15 or 19mm pipe between them as an extra drain hole. However I don't see why I should need to do this when other people seem to be ok....

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10 hours ago, Longboarder said:

That seems like a reasonable explanation and it was happening both before and after the rebuild, suggesting the rebuild has not addressed the problem. Now you could be pumping excessively to fill the rocker cover or the draining is restricted in some way. Long time since I gazed at a pinto head with the rocker cover off. The engine has to be level for the oil to reach the drain holes. The holes must be open and unobstructed. A nut or bolt could easily find its way into them without passing through and cause an obstruction. Any missing? Can't remember where and how many there are but I would have the rocker and sump off and probe each drain hole with a magnet on a telescopic rod, them a wire coat hanger and a bottle brush to ensure they are clear.

I have used my camera probe and all seems ok. It did cross my mind that a wrong head gasket could block one of the holes, but all is fine. I will be dropping the sump shortly and taking a really close look with a torch from top to bottom and so forth. Somethings causing it! Will get a bottle brush too as suggested to ensure a clear and clean drain passage.

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Just a minor point I learnt a while ago - high pressure pumps don't solve any issue around lack of oil supply to the pickup. Some people see low oil pressure or lack of oil pressure and think fitting one will magically resolve their problems but of course, it won't. It does sound to me like lack of supply at the pickup - such as the draining problems suggested - or else all the pressurised oil is bleeding off early... I'm not up on Pintos I'm afraid; incorrectly fitted pump/spray bars/gasket/thrust washer/cap/bolt/etc :-S ?! But given what you've said about, everything does seem to point to lack of adequate drainage from the head. As to why it's only started doing it now, well that's a conundrum; maybe the new oil pump has exaccerbated the problem because now it can fill the head quicker?

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38 minutes ago, brumster said:

Just a minor point I learnt a while ago - high pressure pumps don't solve any issue around lack of oil supply to the pickup. Some people see low oil pressure or lack of oil pressure and think fitting one will magically resolve their problems but of course, it won't. It does sound to me like lack of supply at the pickup - such as the draining problems suggested - or else all the pressurised oil is bleeding off early... I'm not up on Pintos I'm afraid; incorrectly fitted pump/spray bars/gasket/thrust washer/cap/bolt/etc :-S ?! But given what you've said about, everything does seem to point to lack of adequate drainage from the head. As to why it's only started doing it now, well that's a conundrum; maybe the new oil pump has exaccerbated the problem because now it can fill the head quicker?

That is my thought. I fitted the high pressure pump thinking it would help but maybe its actually now causing the problem. 

I have ordered a new standard oil pump and new spray bar to arrive tomorrow. So will get them fitted and go from there. 

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It could be that the pickup pipe head is to close to the floor of the sump.

once you start reving, the oil pump speeds up and if the pickup is to close to the sump floor your restriction will be there.

peen the bottom of the sump or fit a thicket sump gasket, you may be able to bend the pickup pipe bracket to eek out a few mm

8mm is considered optimal, 5mm good enough

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7 hours ago, Snapperpaul said:

It could be that the pickup pipe head is to close to the floor of the sump.

once you start reving, the oil pump speeds up and if the pickup is to close to the sump floor your restriction will be there.

peen the bottom of the sump or fit a thicket sump gasket, you may be able to bend the pickup pipe bracket to eek out a few mm

8mm is considered optimal, 5mm good enough

+1 - this is exactly what happened to me - details in my blog

 

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