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HELP Required


Kking1988
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Firstly hi my name is Kyle and I'm from north yorkshire. I helped my uncle with his kit car when i was young and got my love of cars. It is a robin hood 2b and was on the road in 2005 he as since passed and I have had the chance to buy it even though it was supposed to be mine family issues. Re build was started before he passed and i now have lots of work ahead of me i am currently struggling with electrics as it is being re wired if anyone could offer some help that would be great. 

 

Many thanks Kyle

 

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Hi Kyle, I am sure you will find that there are many people in this "community" who will be happy to help (me for one), most members will have fought with a loom or two. Of course your aim is to have a perfectly operational and reliable electrical system on your 2b. I think you need to put us in the picture as to what is your starting point ? In particular try and identify the origin of the loom. Was/is it from the donor car ? or was it purchased did you uncle leave any paperwork?, most builders keep receipts even if only to cry over how much the car is costing.

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Hi Kyle, I've had loads of help from folk on this site, it's the most helpful bunch you could wish to meet, and much more friendly than other forums that I have seen. I've found that there isn't any such thing as a daft question, and the thing that is stumping you has stumped others in the past who will be happy to share what they found worked.

When you find an issue, a quick post will get a load of response and help you to think things through in different ways - have just had this experience over my dash lighting.

In more general terms I've found that separating things into small jobs so that you can get simple wins (however small) gets the old dopamine going, and helps stop you getting swamped by the big picture. IF you are having an issue and getting no where, you can switch to a job that you know you can solve - you get a win, feel good - and then go back. You'll find that sometimes you have been mulling over subconsciously, and the solution then jumps out at you. Or more frequently in my case an old hand has responded to a post and told me what to do!😂

Like I said, I've had so much help from people I really feel the need to pay it forward. Can't guarantee I'll be any help at all, but am always up to chew the fat!

 

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Thanks for the warm welcome. I'm getting there with the basics luckily I've found he started to fit a cbs 12 circuit wiring module from car builder solutions. And most of the main wiring as been done just lights indicators fan etc. My main question the space for the fuel pump to go as a different wire in it on the fuse box but  I've found one in the engine bay along with a relay box as well as the main module i don't understand why they are fitted with a wiring connecting them to the module when its a plug and play module that already as all relays and fuses fitted unless he was planning on using them but then fitting the wiring module with fuses and relays instead but again why its wired in i don't no.  They all look new and look to have been fitted recently the fuses box is the type they do with lights to indicate blow fuses. if anyone can shed any light on why they could be there or alternatively do I just take them out and carry on wiring in the module. 

 

Secondly fuel pump is connected wired up but by passing a fuse box and the wire just goes to the front of the car and hangs freely. I'm thinking possibly to fit a inertia switch. That is something id want to do anyway but again wiring would I just wire the pump directly to the inertia and then out of the inertia straight in to the slot in the fuse box for a fuel pump or wire in to ignition to activate when the switch is on or would it activate the minute I turn the key if it is straight in to the fuse box .

 

Thanks

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Also I've found paperwork for what i believe to be the original loom a vikki green wiring loom. So far ive found all the front of the car to be new wiring the only original wiring seems to be cables to starter and alternator all cut and reconnected to new wiring and the back of the car lights etc. Are old and again reconnected to new cables via a junction box under the tanks. 

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what engine is fitted? is it carb or EFI as the fuel pump needs to be high pressure if efi plus a swirl pot and a 2nd low pressure pump. if its fitted with a carb the mechanical pump fitted to the engine block works just fine (& simpler). most electric pumps work best fitted near the tank as they push better than suck.

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hi Bob its a 2.0 pinto on webber 45s. Electric fuel pump is fitted under tank No inline filter between the tank and pump though there's a swirl pot unsure why due to carbs which goes it to a filter then a pressure regulator and straight in to the carbs. I no some prefer mechanical pumps with carbs im rather partial to electric pump ive run one before on a 2.o pinto with delortos in a capri and found it more responsive so id like to stick with it tbh. Id just like an inertia fitted for peace of mind just incase its fitting the dam thing though 

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3 hours ago, Kking1988 said:

Thanks for the warm welcome. I'm getting there with the basics luckily I've found he started to fit a cbs 12 circuit wiring module from car builder solutions. And most of the main wiring as been done just lights indicators fan etc. My main question the space for the fuel pump to go as a different wire in it on the fuse box but  I've found one in the engine bay along with a relay box as well as the main module i don't understand why they are fitted with a wiring connecting them to the module when its a plug and play module that already as all relays and fuses fitted unless he was planning on using them but then fitting the wiring module with fuses and relays instead but again why its wired in i don't no.  They all look new and look to have been fitted recently the fuses box is the type they do with lights to indicate blow fuses. if anyone can shed any light on why they could be there or alternatively do I just take them out and carry on wiring in the module. 

 

Secondly fuel pump is connected wired up but by passing a fuse box and the wire just goes to the front of the car and hangs freely. I'm thinking possibly to fit a inertia switch. That is something id want to do anyway but again wiring would I just wire the pump directly to the inertia and then out of the inertia straight in to the slot in the fuse box for a fuel pump or wire in to ignition to activate when the switch is on or would it activate the minute I turn the key if it is straight in to the fuse box .

 

Thanks

Ah, I swapped out my old fuse box to the CBS unit for a couple of reasons, primarily my car had been sitting rotting away for some time so there was a lot of corrosion in the wires which was very difficult to find, and secondly being able to site the box in exactly the most convenient place was then enabled without tugging, pushing and pulling (and therefor damaging) obstreperous bunches of wires. I didn't totally rewire from scratch but split the existing harness into modules which I then bench tested.  I found bench testing to be invaluable - I mocked up and tested (and labelled! - a label machine is indispensable for keeping the cables identified) the circuits away from the car at first so I could be confident that it all worked as it should before committing to getting it routed. Sounds like a faff, but it really saved time and hair tearing (I believe) in the long run. I was using the original ford harness, and I wanted to keep the ford paddles and maintain functionality on the wipers (another story, am using an ex mini rack and pinion). There has been a bit of messing around to ensure they all play nicely together. The old Haynes manual is also invaluable - I made several A3 copies of the wiring diags so that I could scribble and highlight them.

On my pinto the pump is mechanical I think so I didn't actually use that module in the h box, and I'm using the stock Venturi carb (yes, I know, will be updated one day...) so my specific knowledge around that part is sketchy.

Edited by zhap135
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Luckily that's what my uncle as done here everything is all labeled up making my life easier although nothing as been tested so that's something ill have to start i guess before i go any further didn't think about it tbh but the last thing I want is a broken cable somewhere once I've wired it all in. Do you reckon this extra fuse box and relay box could be  a change of mind i cant see it been an old one they look brand new and wired to the module. If there seems to be no purpose for it to be in the engine bay when the cbs module should i just take it out or is there a purpose for one cant imagine what would go in it though. Its the cable in the module labeled up fuse box and wired up that's confusing me. I think i need to copy the diagrams to doodle on.  

 

Been sierra based would the sierra Haynes manual be best then. There's nothing wrong with stock sometimes i was considering going back to stock over the dellortos on the capri it was a bugger to start cold.

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2 hours ago, Kking1988 said:

Luckily that's what my uncle as done here everything is all labeled up making my life easier although nothing as been tested so that's something ill have to start i guess before i go any further didn't think about it tbh but the last thing I want is a broken cable somewhere once I've wired it all in. Do you reckon this extra fuse box and relay box could be  a change of mind i cant see it been an old one they look brand new and wired to the module. If there seems to be no purpose for it to be in the engine bay when the cbs module should i just take it out or is there a purpose for one cant imagine what would go in it though. Its the cable in the module labeled up fuse box and wired up that's confusing me. I think i need to copy the diagrams to doodle on.  

 

Been sierra based would the sierra Haynes manual be best then. There's nothing wrong with stock sometimes i was considering going back to stock over the dellortos on the capri it was a bugger to start cold.

That's good, although it is possible that he made the odd error, so if something is not working as you expect hold that in your mind as a (if low probability) reason

The Haynes manual was/is useful to me as I was using ford harnesses and components with teh CBS module, so the wire colours matched - if your Uncle used a non stock/custom harness bear that in mind that they may use different coloured wires. In any case the Haynes is fantastic on the mechanics. Watch out though I believe there were 2 editions - the older edition with the light blue cover seemed to be more comprehensive.

Re teh extra fuse/relay box it may be that he was having difficulty with a component, and decided to cut his losses and bypass teh CBS12. I'm currently having fun getting the wiper intermittent to work (although I'm sure I got them to work on the old ford box -was a while back before I swapped out) Also the Horn relay is clicking over but not sounding. One option I'm considering is to bypass , but I must confess that grates a bit, not very elegant... [edit] also there is no audible tell-tale for the indicators, not sure id you have found hat issue or is it a problem with mine alone

Yeah, the venturis were only used early on I think, and had their problems - an old friend told me that he used to carry a coke bottle of petrol that he'd pour into teh top when he couldn't get it to start🤪. And lets face it, it isn't a weber.....😂

Edited by zhap135
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I am looking at the CBS 12 module and thinking how it might work with the components that you will have on the Sierra based car. At the same time I am looking at the circuits on the original fuse box. I grant that much of the original fuse box is devoted to features that are no longer present (e.g Headlamp washer relay, rear wash wipe etc). It seems to me that the CBS 12 is almost too "bare bones", having an absolute minimum of relays and fuses. You might find the CBS 12 is a weak link in having more sophisticated features. For example there is no provision for an intermittent wiper relay, or if you want to run the headlights off a relay to avoid thick wires running to/from the dashboard. I am guessing (just as you have) that the intention was to have the fuel pump powered only with ignition on and to do this via an ignition activated relay. In any case you may well soon find that you have need for another fuse or relay, so I would keep the "extra" module.

Edited by Sparepart
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If you still need to wire the headlights and are using the original light control stick from the Sierra best check the original wiring diagram. On mine the switches seemed to operate as grounds for relays, which I did not notice until I wired it up wrong several times and blew the same fuses multiple times. Seemed like the original used four relays on total for the dipped and main beams, although I now have it working with two relays, so I hope this will be ok.

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34 minutes ago, Random said:

If you still need to wire the headlights and are using the original light control stick from the Sierra best check the original wiring diagram. On mine the switches seemed to operate as grounds for relays, which I did not notice until I wired it up wrong several times and blew the same fuses multiple times. Seemed like the original used four relays on total for the dipped and main beams, although I now have it working with two relays, so I hope this will be ok.

This is interesting - I'm just running them straight currently, although I have room on my mounting board for some extra relays. So far I haven't noticed any issues, although I might check to see if the wires get  hot.

In addition, the indicators on my unit work fine, but there is no audible telltale - did you come across the same issue?

also have an issue with the horn relay - the relay clicks over, but no sound from horn - teh horn is tested and works fine off the battery

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The early sierras had hot switching (the switches actually switch the load).

Some time in 85 they went over to relay switching and the switches now connected to earth not 12V.

Using the later switches to hot switch (needs a bit of inginuity) gives a short switch life. The original switches were designed for hot switching and will last a long time.

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1 hour ago, IanS said:

The early sierras had hot switching (the switches actually switch the load).

Some time in 85 they went over to relay switching and the switches now connected to earth not 12V.

Using the later switches to hot switch (needs a bit of inginuity) gives a short switch life. The original switches were designed for hot switching and will last a long time.

Yes, that sounds right - mine's an 83. according the wiring diagram the cabling is direct, and looking at the paddles the wiring is as heavy there as that leading to the lamps

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