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Silver Top Zetec To St170


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#1 DAVE1954

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 06:36 PM

Hi mate of mine wants me to help him put a st170 in his Robin Hood, he hasn't done any research on it but is very confident it will be no problem, there is a 1.8 Zetec silver top in it at moment, I am opposite to him so I'll do the asking what will or won't fit off silver top , What will he have to buy, I must be honest my experience is on pintos . Cheers. Dave. P s. Will his bike carbs fit from 0ne to the other.

#2 theduck

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 10:55 AM

Cant help on the specifics of what will and wont fit, but can say that without a way to control the VVT he will not see any benefit in doing the swap.



#3 Longboarder

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 12:23 PM

Duck you forget that he is changing from an 1.8 silver to a 2.0 blacktop effectively. There's torque and BHP gains but not as much as expected. 115/130 to 170. You do notice that. But its not a blacktop. Its a VVT blacktop with big inlet ports but standard exhaust ports. So a policy on what to do with cam timing and opening out the exhausts does yield more power than a blacktop. But, and its a big but, its fiddly, hard and much more expensive to do significantly better than a standard blacktop and in the end just not worth it in my opinion. The ST is difficult to get running well and disappointing.  Change to a 2.0 blacktop makes much more sense. Or if he wants power to a 2.0 Duratec. Still cheaper than an ST170 for the same power.

 

I run throttle body injection and ignition by Omex 600, cam control with VVT Pro, CR 10.5 and modified head, particularly the exhausts and get just on 200bhp. Its been a long road and not worth the effort IMO.

 

So my recommendation would be a cheap change to a 2.0 blacktop. Most stuff will just transfer. Auxiliary belt is different and an idler needs to be added to drive the waterpump the correct way. Manifolds will fit. Engine mounts might need slight mod with holes opening up slightly. Alternator mount might need a bit more modifying. Manifolds could do with opening up a bit. But that's about it. Not quite a straight swap but easy mods.

 

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#4 lotusPaul

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 04:25 PM

Its also possible to use the head gear from the black top in a silvertop. Black top has bigger valves and need a little machining to fit, 170s are waisted for more flow too. On a 1.8 it may be a bit too much breathing but if a 2.0 block was fitted later,you could see some good benifits.
As with either, the exhaust is quite restrictive.

Its worth the swap but its time consuming. The coolant direction of flow is what causes most grief.
If you dont run vvt then its almost pointless swapping but there are ecu systems that can controll it well.

I think it was classic ford or fast ford magazine that ran the series of articles on the silver/black hybrid. Dyno result is on u tube.

#5 DeanRudkin

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 04:42 PM

It all depends what power he wants to get Ive put a st170 bottom end in mine with the blacktop head on it for my turbo in my 2b I really wouldnt bother with the vvt. Chris (tractor) had nothing but problems with his vvt and now hes going turbo also. The engine mounts on the st170 are the same as the blacktop so if there the same as the silver top thats easy enough to do I just dont know if there is any difference in the exhaust outlets

#6 lotusPaul

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 05:06 PM



Hope thats the correct link

#7 richyb66

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 05:10 PM

Is it me or is that only running on four?
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#8 tractor

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 06:47 PM

I have to say when I was running my St170 on bike carbs megajolt and mtech vvt controller it was awesome if I hadn't sold the parts when I whent over to the dark side #injection # all the parts would have been refitted cos it was awesome oh sorry already said that

#9 tractor

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 06:57 PM

Oh and by the way I have since found out why I couldn't get the vvt to work with the injection and no I ain't tellin

#10 jaimo

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 07:38 PM

Tease chris
Will it ever be a good runner ?

#11 MarkBzero

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 07:58 PM

I went from crossflow to ST170 on twin 45s (because I love the look and sound) using megajolt and VVT pro. So far OK, still need a rolling road session after MOT.
So starting from a different place but I am very happy with results.

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#12 DanE

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 08:34 PM

Black top head fits the silvertop? How much bhp could it be worth in Na form could be a mod for the future.

Ssc stylus with a supercharged zetec 242bhp and 253ft lb of wheel spin.

 

 


#13 lotusPaul

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 08:46 PM

Its not a direct swap but a very easy one. Blacktop valves are bigger so have better top end flow as standard and the port shapes are better than the silvertop too. Saying that the silvertop flows well too, differeces between the two are belt and chain drives, hyd and solid followers,
Forgetting the vvt aspect of course.
Pro tuners have got to grips with the vvt and have done for ages so is not a secret any more, but then you get to the question of fitting a duratec. An all together better and more potent engine.

#14 jaimo

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 08:50 PM

What duratec do you all talk about is that the one in fiesta st 150
Will it ever be a good runner ?

#15 brumster

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 10:07 PM

Duratec can be a bit confusing as a term, as it was used as a "brand" on various engines from Ford. But yes, they're talking about the 4 pot that came in 1.8/2.0/2.3/2.5 specs and was used in the older Fiesta ST.

 

edit: Wikipedia : https://en.wikipedia.../Mazda_L_engine


Edited by brumster, 22 November 2017 - 10:07 PM.