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Gbs Baffled Tank & Fuel Surge


brumster
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You could see if the tank is baffled by looking through the sender hole.

 

Just thinking out loud

 

If it was baffeled, they only slow fuel movement, they do not eliminate it altogether.

 

The foam cube is an idea, but wouldn't the fuel just flow through the gaps between cubes. I would have thought you would have to at least fully fill the tank or at least cover the tank floor to be of use, and would it not take out total tank volume.

 

If you restricted the fuel movement could that effect the volume of fuel you could get out of the tank to circulate in Hp system.

 

To be honest, no idea.

 

As much as you may dislike the idea, the tank was "designed" to use a swirl pot.

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Hope you don't mind if I throw in my ha'pennies worth. Now I'm no expert on fuel systems but it seems to me that if you're issue arose from the shortcomings of the petrol tank a lot of people would be reporting the issue... it would be a common problem and I don't get the impression that it is. So maybe something else is at play in what is essentially an intermittent fault.

 

Your fuel system uses electrics too. Worth checking the you don't have a short or bad connection to the fuel pump that only shows up when you do those right hand bends on round about. Is there a wire rubbing on the chases that's worn through the insulation? Do you have issues with the pressure regulator or a faulty fuel pressure sensor.

 

Yes it a pain doing of the checks but it might save you money buying a new petrol tank only to find you've got the same problem afterward.

 

Kevin

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As much as you may dislike the idea, the tank was "designed" to use a swirl pot.

"Designed" to use more parts that GBS can then sell you ;) ;)

 

I think the issue was with a baffled tank (that appears to have been discussed and agreed) and then being supplied something different. I agree the issue would not be solved with baffles however it would present itself with less remaining fuel or more aggressive driving depending on the design of the baffles.

 

Once again, GBS have "designed" something that with a bit of proper thought, could have produced a better overall product.

 

My first try would be filling the tank with foam and a vertical sender to avoid reading issues. Then if that doesn't work, maybe weigh up a new tank with built in swirl pot or fitting a little 0.5l one in the engine bay and associated gubbings instead of ripping the back panel off to get the tank out.

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I'll check the wiring while I'm under there but it strikes me it would be incredibly unlikely that the wiring/electrical side on fails on certain turns... but I guess it could happen, you can't rule it out :) ! Fair point.

 

I've ordered the vertical sender and tank foam. Not had anything out of GBS but it sounds to me like there is no such thing as a "baffled" tank, or at least whatever their consideration of "baffled" means is not the same as mine. Hopefully I'll speak to them later and clarify.

 

I think the issue isn't prevalent as most people just automatically fit the swirl pot because everyone tells them that's what they've got to do.

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I think the issue isn't prevalent as most people just automatically fit the swirl pot because everyone tells them that's what they've got to do.

 

Well, yes but that is because it IS what you have to do - as you are finding out, not doing that doesn't work ^_^

 

Modern cars have a built-in swirl pot in the tank, don't they? They don't just rely on baffles, so why should we? And putting the swirl pot outside the tank seems much more sensible to me - it doesn't waste space in an already small tank and it makes for easier maintenance should anything go wrong with it.

 

What alternative is there that GBS could have designed to make it cheaper/simpler for us? I always feel sorry for companies who have to bite their tongue when they hear a customer (ie. an amateur) tell them how to do their job better...

 

Also, out of interest, how does foam in the tank work? Might stop fuel sloshing about but how does it ensure a constant supply to the outlet? Reading online, it seems to be designed to prevent surging and limit the amount of fuel that escapes in the event of an accident.

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Make your own small swirl pot & fit in engine bay -- the pipework is all there (feed & return to tank) more wiring required but on the plus side no HP fuel running the length of the car --- Florins swirl tank only contains about a pint -- made from copper tube & plate, silver soldered together & sat on bulk-head.

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Well, yes but that is because it IS what you have to do - as you are finding out, not doing that doesn't work ^_^

 

On the basis someone told me "the tank is completely unbaffled, the car isn't driveable in a real world situation if you don't fit one" then I'd agree!

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Yes, fair point - I'd forgotten that you'd been told the 'baffled' tank would work...did you pay much more for the 'baffled' tank? Maybe you can complain to GBS and they might give you some cash off the swirl pot bits? They did something similar for me when my alternator died recently...

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"Designed" to use more parts that GBS can then sell you ;) ;)

 

I think the issue was with a baffled tank (that appears to have been discussed and agreed) and then being supplied something different. I agree the issue would not be solved with baffles however it would present itself with less remaining fuel or more aggressive driving depending on the design of the baffles.

 

Once again, GBS have "designed" something that with a bit of proper thought, could have produced a better overall product.

 

My first try would be filling the tank with foam and a vertical sender to avoid reading issues. Then if that doesn't work, maybe weigh up a new tank with built in swirl pot or fitting a little 0.5l one in the engine bay and associated gubbings instead of ripping the back panel off to get the tank out.

 

Thought you would pick up on the "designed" Zach.

 

did you ever work out my cryptic clue :)

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Thought you would pick up on the "designed" Zach.

 

did you ever work out my cryptic clue :)

Haha its the GBS standard response when something doesn't work "It was designed to do this instead" basically they didn't think about that.

 

Anyway, trying to keep this on topic for the OP, its been so long and I've had so much else go on with my Zero I have forgotten your cryptic clue Simon haha. You'll have to drop it on an email to me again when you have some free time :D

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  • 3 weeks later...

Today's job done, then. In the week, I drained the tank and set about machining an adapter plate to mount the 5-hole VDO vertical fuel sender into the 6-hole tank flange...

 

Q_BVSgro_yp7HH0yJ1ntDT0PuqlZA04Efs7_U4GceKJLkS5tL-8QrnYr-Q5DfNjwsGzJheANs1958cWu

oBvCQEE8MVStteWpb39_B8JyOjUkAyuWYW4j6-EN

 

The fun part today was getting into the tank via the arches on both sides - I removed the old fuel sender, but also the filler neck tube on the left, so I could fill the tank with foam from both sides. The blocks scrunch up just enough to fit through the apertures. The whole process was rather laborious and uncomfortable - squish a cube in, then poke it down into the tank with a mix of a socket extension and some semi-rigid fuel hose, and checking with a borescope periodically.

 

CozyDAPPZ9y-tgi1b7PBfbj7KTFxqmjrXiGCIwUfg98Z7weGtuMm6l4a6Zue4zSh6e_nmfmnjqdx5X_2

 

It's all slotted back in nicely, I just need to re-configure the dashboard to the new 180ohms of the VDO sender versus the 240 of the old one, then half-fill the tank and see how it all performs...

 

dDHq6LcxcPXhCGZ8MWH1xCRkLCX8SYHr4h5AcBRN

 

I went for a 180mm VDO sender, this works out just about the right height for a GBS tank *with the spacer/adapter plate* (itself 10mm thick). Didn't snap a photo of it (doh) but it's pretty boring looking anyway, just a vertical tube, like this :

 

224-215_front.jpg

 

Means the float cannot be interfered with by foam moving around in the tank.

 

Hopefully gearbox swap tomorrow so will be a while before I can go out for a drive and check if it's fixed things... snow and R888's don't mix well at all.... :D

Edited by brumster
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