Help By A Newbie,power Upgrade Options?

[Guest Rallyreason]

I have heard of some horror stories regarding bike engines? I was told that they go through clutches very quickly?

 

Unless someone knows any different? Which engine would best suit a kit car? What would the cost be compared to something like a Duratec or Vtec?

[Snapperpaul]

A mate runs a 4age in a Striker with a set of cams, Omex and Jenveys

159bhp great little engine

[speedtripledan]

Think long and hard about a bike engine its bloody good fun but thats in my 340kg mev in a 500kg zero it would start taking out clutches. most big bike engines have a max design weight of approx 400kg ie bike, rider pillion luggage the closer you are to it the better in the mevs case its 20kg out with me driving it. The other down side is 1st gear pull away is a bitch very hard to balance the snappy clutch versus razor sharp throttle. also engines are very expensive and poor on mpg. ive now had a tuned pinto 150bhp a tuned rv8 240bhp and the r1 mev 172bhp the rv8 was the nicest engine to drive (between oil slicks). the mev is the quickest!

[Tazzzzman1]

If you want a nice free revving engine which has load of options to up the power to 200+bhp then opt for the Mazda MX5 engine. Easy to pick one up for less then £250 and are pretty bullet proof. 1.6 is a more free running engine, the 1.8 giving slightly more torque. Both good options, without breaking the bank.

[Bob Tucker]

Like everyone, i can only afford so much.

 

You are right...the 2.0 Pinto is by far the easiest, and you can easily up the power to maybe 150 bhp, without needing to change anything else.

But it is old technology, & frankly a bit smelly!

 

There are many other options...but first set yourself a budget, or a power target.

ZETEC is the most common, but there are a few with 4AGE, MX5, Rover V8, Ford V6, Redtop

 

I started with a standard 2.0 pinto, gradually upping it to 140 bhp (twin 40s, stage 3 head, larger inlet valves, FR32 cam) over a few years...in some ways, I wish I had stopped at that.....but....I installed a standard redtop with 175 bhp cost me just over 2K,for the bellhousing, clutch, carbs, manifold, ignition system, sump, floor mounted master cylinder, etc. These were mostly new, but can sometimes be found on EBAY etc.

I bodged up 2 standard exhaust manifolds, which worked OK but were restrictive.

 

My standard type 9 pretty soon got upset with 175bhp, so I had an upgraded close ratio type 9 built....another 1k.

 

Then I had a full "stage 3" 210 BHP Redtop engine built...£££££ (by AUTOSPRINT) I won't say how much, SWMBO is learning how to use the PC!!

Then 4 Toyo 888s 'cos the Michelins were spinning too easily.

Then Mintex 1144 pads, and better quality disks....

Then a new manifold & exhaust...

 

Get the picture? Not so bad spread over 5 years, but far more than I set out to spend.

Believe me, you will always want more.....

HTH Bob

[Guest Rallyreason]

Once again, thanks to all that have replied.

However if no one minds i would like to ask what upgrades have any of you done?

What was the shopping list required to actually complete the upgrade?

Was you happy with the results or do you wish you had gone a different way?

 

I guess i am really trying to find out actual costs/issues with any upgrades. Along with the pros and cons.

[Snapperpaul]

First engine was a 2.1 but don't obses over 2.1 or indeed 205 blocks

The easy upgrades are around the injection head good for 5 to 10bhp on its own (£150)

Easy compression upgrade is a thinner gasket Reinze 1.27mm Felpro 1mm, the Felpro will addabout 0.5 to the ratio

Cam depends on your rods standard 6,800 or 7,200 with injection rods however a short trip to 7,500 is ok just don't hold it to long

FR30, FR34, low duration high lift or the more sporty FR32 nice revvy cam I got 128bhp and 135 FtLbs its probably better to buy a cam kit with springs and followers some come with gaskets (£155 to £255)

You should fit new cam bearing (£20)

Most of my modifications have been over time buying bits here and there then putting it all together when the pile of bits is complete as a result I know have a spare engine, gearbox, diff, carbs etc

[Guest mower man]

I run a 2.1 with std head and cam ,38 dgas Weber and 4into2 into 1 exhaust manifold,it gives around 100 bhp @the wheels [Torque tune rolling road ] ,This is very basic but has given me alot of fun ,hoping to recam it over the winter 110/115 would be nice !. BHP costs money how deep are your pockets ? Also check your diff ratio ifits a 3.37 it will kill accel unless you have big torque I changed to a 3.6 last year far better [est0 to 60 6secs ish ] mower man

[brumster]

However if no one minds i would like to ask what upgrades have any of you done?

 

We went from a 2.1 Pinto to a 1600 K-Series. An odd choice, maybe, but we wanted to move to something modern that would "just start and go" - more power wasn't the main concern, but more of that in a sec. The Pinto was about 130bhp; the K in standard form should be around 109!

 

What was the shopping list required to actually complete the upgrade?

Bar the obvious engine, we had to source an appropriate bellhousing to mate it to the Type 9, appropriate clutch, modified (lengthened) propshaft, custom exhaust manifold, fuel injection related changes (like high pressure pump, piping, regulator, modified fuel tank), caterham engine mounts and a wiring loom. We also ended up doing a number of other things at the same time, some unrelated (moved to throttle bodies, an aftermarket Emerald ECU, tie bar conversion up front, different radiator setup, OBP pedal box, custom hoses, custom clutch cable) so it would be unfair to suggest all these were needed as well - but some of them made the conversion easier if a little more expensive (the pedal box, for example, freed up a lot of room in the engine bay to avoid induction system meeting vacuum servo!). I've also got the cams/valves/followers/springs to take it up to ~180bhp with the appropriate head work, but these are still in the boxes/wrappers

 

Was you happy with the results or do you wish you had gone a different way?

Yep, very happy with it, car feels properly modernised. Undoubtedly easier ways than a K-Series, mind you, but we wanted to be different (this was back in '99). I'd go Duratec now. Certainly wouldn't miss putting a big lump of pig-iron in the front though

 

I guess i am really trying to find out actual costs/issues with any upgrades. Along with the pros and cons.

If you think ~150bhp will be enough for you over the years, the Pinto option will get you there quicker, easier and cheaper as the guys have said above. If you want more, I'd invest in the engine swap now (Zetec/Duratec must be the obvious choice, but don't be put off by something different if you don't mind the challenges of a few more 'custom' parts).

[Guest Rallyreason]

Some very interesting information from you all.

 

I guess i am going to have to do some more research first and keep my eye on the classifieds to see if something comes up that interests me.

 

Please keep posting any more information on this topic. I am sure that there is more than just me that will find it interesting, but may also benefit.

 

Thanks

[Guest alfaGTA]

mind a mildly tuned pig iron pinto will feel much different in a flyweight zero with good handling compared to a heavier kitcar model.... My pinto package is negotiable if you are interested, check the "for sale" section it has not been embarrassed by 165 bhp zetec's on trackdays

[Longboarder]

Cheapest route is still the 2.0L pinto. You have the induction side already sitting on your engine and probably an adequate exhaust. It is a straight swap 1600 out 2.0 in so would take a day. A bit of home gas flowing, and an engineer to skim the head and put in three angle valve seats and you are back on the road. Total £400 ish. Another £200 for a cam and you would have a genuine 125 at the wheels and maybe a bit more. Think £2000+ for any other engine swap.

 

Nigel

[richardm6994]

The stealth pinto (AlfaGTA's engine) is a cracking pinto package...you wouldn't go far wrong if you dropped that in your zero!

[Peter Bell]

Having just bought it I assume you want to drive it so i would stick a 2l pinto in it, as Longborder says you have all the bits its a days work and your back on the road. Drive it for some time, enjoy the handling then decide what to do. Other wise you could spend a fortune, lots of time then decide you don't like it anyway!

[Guest Rallyreason]

The stealth pinto (AlfaGTA's engine) is a cracking pinto package...you wouldn't go far wrong if you dropped that in your zero!

 

I am interested to find why you say this? Have you been his car?