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I've decided to post this up now because I thinks it's useful information for people looking to buy a kit but who don't understand what they might be letting themselves in for. I'm surprised at the number of cars that come up for sale and are clearly not what they claim to be so I thinks it's worth running through a few details and people can then decide whether they want to risk buying a particular car. This isn't meant to be a definitive guide so if anyone has something relevant to add, let me know. Thinking of buying a kit car? If you’re starting to look at buying a kit car then it’s essential that no matter how nice a car looks or how much of a bargain it seems, it need to be correctly registered. Cars appear for sale, often on auction sites, that aren’t what they claim to be and there are a number of reasons for this. Some background on registering kit cars. Prior to 1998 and the introduction of the SVA (Single Vehicle Approval) Test, getting a kit car on the road was somewhat simpler than it is today. You could build a kit using new and / or donor parts and the basic roadworthiness was checked by a normal MOT. With your MOT certificate in hand, the car was taken to a DVLA office for an inspection. This would determine how the car would be registered: Registered retaining the donor vehicle registration - which used a points based system with points allocated for the major components of the donor vehicle that had been re-used plus a NEW body and a NEW chassis. Cars not complying with this system would automatically receive a Q plate. The V5 would be amended to show the make and manufacturer of the kit (but see later information for “specials”) and the appropriate body style change. Cars registered by this method would then be due an MOT after 12 months. However, there will be some older kits around that don’t have the V5 amended but still show something like Ford Escort or Ford Sierra on them. This may be due to an error on the part of the DVLA when they were inspected when the rules weren’t correctly implemented or they may be cars that were only MOT’d, but not presented for the DVLA inspection. This may have been due to the possibility of them getting a Q plate and the apparent stigma attached to it, with people simply just MOTing the car and driving it on the donor car identity. In either case, such cars are incorrectly registered because the description on the V5 doesn’t match the actual car. SVA TEST In 1998 the SVA test was introduced in an attempt to give cars a more thorough mechanical inspection prior to registration and to weed out dangerous, badly built cars. The test fee was £190 (£38 for a re-test) and on successful completion of the test, a MAC (Ministry Approval Certificate) was issued. The registration inspection that followed was similar to before but now with 3 possible outcomes: Age related plate – still using the point based system for major components from the donor vehicle plus a NEW body and NEW Chassis. The registration letter would be the same as the donor vehicle e.g. F prefix for a 1989 donor and again the V5 is amended to show the make and manufacturer of the kit and the body style changed to suit. The VIN number will be unique (not the donor VIN). The V5 may have notes added to Section 3 Special Notes to the effect that the vehicle is a kit built from parts, all of which may not be new. The “Date of first registration” should be the date the donor car was registered e.g 01/04/1989 and the “Date of first registration in the UK” will be the date the kit was registered and the V5 was issued. New registration – cars build from all new parts (with receipts to prove) with the exception that one major reconditioned component can be used (generally the rear axle). Registration would be the current one at the time of the inspection and the V5 is updated as above and the VIN is again unique. Q plate – applied to everything else not covered by the previous 2 cases e.g. cars build using second hand parts from a number of different vehicles. V5 updated as above and a unique VIN number. In all of these 3 cases the V5 should describe the actual car, it shouldn’t say FORD, JAGUAR or any other obvious trademarked manufacturers name. The VIN and engine numbers on the V5 should exactly match those on the actual car. New registration cars would be due an MOT after 3 years, the others might be after a year or possible 3 years depending on how the DVLA processed the paperwork. In any case, any car that has passed an SVA test would now require an MOT. IVA TEST In 2009 the IVA (Individual Vehicle Approval) test was introduced. It was only slightly changed from the SVA test but there was a big increase in the test fee – up to £450 and £90 for re-tests. Registration wise nothing much changed with the same 3 possible outcomes. However, the increased test fee seems to have prompted more people to find ways of avoiding the IVA test and circumventing the correct registration process. This might involve using the identity (V5) of a different vehicle and in particular, using a Dutton V5. Lots of Dutton kit cars made it onto the road prior to the SVA test, these were largely Ford based and poor examples can be bought for not much money (less than the IVA fee). The actual car is either scrapped or broken for parts and the Dutton VIN number, engine number etc is transferred to another kit. The identity on the V5 doesn’t correctly represent the actual car and it hasn’t had an SVA or IVA inspection and so is potentially not safe to use on the road. No inspection but still correctly registered! In addition to the pre-SVA, SVA and IVA cases explained above, there is another route for getting certain kits on the road and apply only to a RE-BODY. This refers to a NEW body fitted to an existing chassis and examples would include fibreglass bodies fitted to VW Beetle floorpans , other new bodies fitted to Triumph Herald or other separate chassis cars or sets of fibreglass panels fitted onto a monocoque car (Ferrari replica panel onto an Toyota MR2 or a Peugeot). If the floorpan, chassis or monocoque of the car is UNMODIFIED and the majority of the main mechanical components are re-used, these cars can essentially still be registered without and IVA or SVA test. They retain the registration, VIN and engine number of the base vehicle but are assigned with a new model and manufacturer on the V5. In addition to this, if the base vehicle is tax exempt (pre 1981), the tax exempt status still applies. In general, cars to be wary of would include the following: Anything where the VIN, Registration, engine number or body style shown on the V5 don’t match the actual car. You probably wouldn’t want this on your daily driver, so why would you want it on your kit? Cars with V5’s that say Ford, Jaguar, Triumph that clearly aren’t those vehicles. Possible exceptions to this could include makes or models that include the word SPECIAL in them. These should exclusively be kits registered pre SVA (1998) and the DVLA at that time decided to use the description to signify that the kit was based on say a Ford Cortina and so was described as “FORD SPECIAL” or FORD CORTINA SPECIAL” Anything that claims to be a Dutton that isn’t. A few of these are still around and the DVLA have been quite active in seeking these cars out and looking at them in some detail. For more information on identifying Dutton models, refer to the Dutton Owners Club http://www.duttonownersclub.co.uk/id.html Cars that claim to be MOT and /or Tax exempt which are using V5’s of much older vehicles (currently 40 years old), unless they are a re-body on a chassis or floorpan that can be proven to be the age it says it is. So what are the possible consequences of buying or owning a car that is incorrectly registered? The vehicle isn’t what it claims to be (an offence in itself) which could lead to it being seized by the DVLA and them potentially destroying it or requiring it to be IVA tested and re-registered. This might be triggered a roadside check, an insurance claim or even taking the car for an MOT. The burden of proof would fall on the owner to show that the vehicle is registered correctly, which might be very difficult for anyone who didn’t build the kit and doesn’t have the history and documentation to support this. A person selling an incorrectly registered car, even in good faith, would have misrepresented it if they advertised it as something that is wasn’t and a subsequent purchaser of the car might be entitled in law to a refund if the problem came to light. Summary. In summary, if you’re considering buying a kit car, check that the identity shown on the V5 matches the actual vehicle. If there are any discrepancies, then the safest course of action is to assume the worst and look in more detail to try and disprove this. The information shown above should allow the registration status of most kits to be fully understood but there will still be some exceptions. If doubt still exists, seek additional advice via the club or the forum.

Good morning Northwest kit car owners. Just to confirm I can’t change what has happened in the past but we can change the fortunes of the Northwest group in the future. As the Area Secretary, I am more than happy to put our cars in a position to attend local shows, I am more than happy to organise monthly meetings and run out, over the region but I also need your support to come together. The first test of our intent is to resolve to restart our group as from January 1st 2022 with this in mind I would like to propose due to cost of the bridge and travelling, that we set up 2 location 1 in Liverpool and 1 on the Wirral and each month alternate them with that proposition in mind I will await your feedback. Now is the time to act. Steve P

Yay passed its MOT

Hi All, Great run out the The Corner House Meets at Charity Fam, Wrightington, over 100 cars in attendance, bacon butties and a brew, kicking tyres with like minded people, what a fab morning. (check it out on Facebook for more pictures) Now I'm not an expert in recognising types of cars but there were TVR's, Ferraris, Porsches, Cobra replicas, MG's from yesteryear, a nice JBA Falcon, a lovely blue GTM, minis, rally liveried cars, a gorgeous 1991 RS Escort, an XR2, a Datsun Cherry (couldn't see any rust ) and a tractor! (I have missed a load I am sure. A couple of piccies attached along with my pick of the Porsche bunch. They hold these meets first Sunday of every month, no cost to enter, surely if you live in the NW this should be on your radar, see you all next month. Darrell

I would like to thank everyone that spoke to me and my wife at the show on Sunday it has helped me with going forward and buying my 1st robin hood 2b As soon as i have one that looks right i will post and ask your advice Nathan and julie

It was good to meet you guys today for a coffee and a chat followed by a good drive in the dry, what more could you want. Also thanks for having me as a passenger whist my car is in bits. Here are some pictures from today. A view from Rivington At The Cherry Tree pub

Just returned from my first run of 22 a run over the Scottish border to Jedbugh and back a run of just over 130 miles, Strong winds and torrential rain over the Border hills but it was so nice to have all the roads to myself and a great morning out.

Make sure you change all the bushes that you can whilst you can get at them. You don’t want to be doing this again next year.

For those members who reside in N.Ireland and also for those visiting Motorfest NI has come round again. The event will be in 21st August 2022 at the Ballee Playing Fields in Ballymena. For further details see poster below

Well that was a pleasant surprise considering I picked that place with the Google equivalent of throwing a dart at a map. Obviously the weather was perfect, and the drive there was enjoyable but the Park was really nice. My concern of the size of the car park from Google Maps was unfounded once I saw they had a huge overflow car park in the field next to the main car park. So we were spoilt for choice. So a couple of hours sitting around chatting and eating followed by a short wander around the park finishing off with inevitable ice cream and a nice day was had by all. The Park is particularly good for children so if anyone is local with children I would heartily recommend it. Cheers Al

Great car, well priced. Someone is going to get a bargain. For anyone who isn't aware, although the seller Nigel hasn't been so active on the forum recently, he still holds the record for the most content on here. That's a lot of knowledge and a lot of it has gone in to the car.

Lovely weather for the Surrey Massiv to come out (OK, 4 of us and only 1 from Surrey)...Nice to meet up and chew the fat... Always a great selection of cars at the Chalet:

Hi Simon Glad to see you are on the road to recovery mate... seems only like yesterday since we were sat in B&Q car park up in Scotland repairing your throttle cable Hope to catch up soon mate

There is a couple on evilbay which don't appear to have the usual Cosworth tax added.

Jees, sounds horrendous . Never used a grinder in my life, hope I never have to...

I had a good day out, thanks for the pics. ian

I know that feeling mate

Mine reads off the propshaft bolts, more reliable than magnets as they won't fall off. My prop is flanged both ends so the sensor is at the front end mounted to the back of the gearbox. Two important things. First make sure the gap between the sensor and the bolt heads is the same for each bolt. Second make the bracket really really rigid so the gap can't change. If it does, the speedo will be all over the place. The ETB sensor has an led in the back of it where the wires go in. When it's powered up, the led will light when it detects a bolt head or magnet passing it so you can adjust the gap to get a good reading off each trigger in turn.

Good evening my fellow Northeastern Hoodies, My sincere apologies for not having replied to your post. I went to see my sister in Baildon on tuesday and when I got home was just a little knackered longish journey in the dark out of practice now, Woke up yesterday found I had the Mother and Father of a cold cough etc, Dosed myself up with all the usual suspects including Liberal doses of single malt, as it is urgently required that I am fit for the weekend. I just hope that you all manage to get through the festive season without falling down with any unnecessary ailments and enjoy the festivities. So its just time to say thanks for all the crac over the past year and to vish you all the very best Christmas know to man,and a Healthy and prosperous New Year to you and all your family's. So health wealth and happiness to all you Hoodies out there and remember, Not long till Stoneleigh 2022. finger crossed! Best wishes. Allan

just wishing all the members a happy Christmas, and safe next year with trouble free motoring

Good evening all Update of events in the near future: Saturday 4th December 2021 Run out to Southport meeting at Standish 11 am. Standish meeting place to follow. All welcome to join us. Wednesday 8th December 2021 Zoom group meeting starting 7pm. Any one who wants to join the Zoom meeting contact me and I will send out an e-mail invite. Your club, your voice. Regards Steve P.

I'll be there right day, right time lol

Come on my hardy men. We are wind in your hair and bugs in your teeth types. You will be wanting blankets over your knees next. I am taking a run in my car over the intended route this weekend to work out the meeting spot and the rest of the run. I will post the details. Steve

A friend in the lotus7 club recently fitted electrical heating to his seats. Those low flying types need to harden up.

Zoom as a starter and to keep the momentum in the early days sounds good to me

Hi Steve I’m based in Manchester City center, currently under going a rebuild of the engine hoping to get it back up and running in Feb time due to work commitments. I can’t say I will be able to attend everyone but i will do my best to go to as many as possible. I intended to get it in shape for the car show in tatton park next year if it’s on. I took it out for its last spin the other week, when we had the last bit of sunshine,around Manchester City center. The comments and people asking can they sit in and take a picture was ridiculous, anyways keep me in mind when you have meets would love to come meet up with you all have a cuppa

Hi Darrell. It is my suggestion and intention that each month we will have our meetings in one of 3 locations to make it fair. My thinking is one on the Wirral, then 1 in the Liverpool area and finally one around Chorley or Preston. The away day ride out can then be set up. I am also sorting out some car show/ charity events. I hope that this will sit well with the group. We will be as active as the effort we put into it.

Hi All, This is good news that the NW Group is a 'phoenix from the fire' and being reborn. New year new start sounds good to me. Count me in I live over in Blackpool, is there a possibility that meetings could occur this way 'ish as well? I cant wait to see your cars and swap stories/ ideas/ solutions etc. have fun, Darrell

Hi all, thank you for the recognition of my attempts to organise meetings in the past. I can't change the past but can look to the future for a better new period. As mentioned please do not hesitate to contact me; for my part if I can establish some sort of appetite to grow our Northwest group and strengthening it by monthly meetings I would be more than delighted to do so. Steve P.

This might help

What a cracking day, blue skies all day, plenty to do and see, lots of people attending. I guess it was a combination of the weather and the desperation to go somewhere We only managed two cars as our other 2 regulars were stuck by lack of petrol. But Derek/Mo and I enjoyed it anyway. Some lovely cars, although the picture of the 4 cars was taken first thing in the day before the hordes descended on us. By lunchtime you could not move. The poor organiser was on his first time and was hopeful he might get up to 20 cars. Little did he know I reckon there were over 50 by early afternoon. Lincolnshire won't be closing down over winter so watch this space for the next meet.

Hi I removed my tank by pulling both seat as far forward as possible and removing the panel behind. The tank came through quite easily. Its the sierra injection model as a new one was easily sourced on ebay. My kits a 2B.

A nice day out and a decent run for three of us. Just over 100 mile round trip for me, which I find perfect. Airfield was a bit quieter than usual, no sign of the Spitfire we normally see. Summer has definitly gone away though, a bit of a chill in the air.

Love to

Would anyone be interested in joining us for a ride out this Wednesday its something that's been posted on Westfield sports car club and I've asked are they are more than happy if anyone else wants to join more the merrier I joined them on Sunday for a breakfast run out to oilcan cafe and it was really good been in convoy

The club has kindly been invited back to a camping weekend at Craig Cundy’s farm near Huntingdon on the weekend of 6th 7th August and we can also arrive on Friday 5th There is a large paddock that is mown and plenty of space The family have kindly offered to cook the food we supply on a BBQ. On Saturday afternoon Craigs brother ( Rambo of the north ) will bring a few guns so we can have a go at clay pigeon shooting. Anyone interested please put your names on this post. Both Sharon and myself will be going. I would also like to apply for club funding towards this event.

No can do for me this month...will try for next one

Hi Andi, I'm only coming if I can get there without roadworks !!! All being well I'll see you there, in the kit.

It is not robin hoods that are the problem. The problem is unregistered cars of any type, there are a lot of abandomed kit builds (of all makes) out there for many reasons, it is just that robin hood produced more kits per year (approx 600 per year) than almost all other manufactures combined from mid 90s for the next 15 years. So there are more uncompleted robin hoods out there than most other single make. There are probably a higher percentage of the high priced multistage payement kits unfinished out there. Chin up 2Bs were designed to pass IVA. SVA came allong when government realised that this was a profit center and upped prices to suit, little else changed so properly put together it will pass.

https://www.burtonpower.com/water-pump-ford-pinto-sohc-models-with-viscous-fan-qcp2525.html

Pinto like thicker oil 20/50 works better than more modern thinner oils. Air filter is a case of what you have fitted as it will not be what ford fitted. As for oil filter and spark plugs go to your local motor factors and tell them that it is for a 1985 ford sierra. I hope that this helps

I don't recall, it was 5 years ago...but I'm sure that will work...if not, it will reply back with the right one.

Hi Simon, good to have you back on board and hear you're getting better. I've literally just put your membership pack in it's envelope. It'll be one of the last few I do as I stepped down from the membership role at the AGM yesterday but I'm having you back and reading you post have made doing it a little bit special.

OK - so does anyone know how Robin Hood allocated chassis numbers? Were they numbered by RH or were they allocated locally by the builder or Test Station when they were first registered?? I have a Sierra 7 with a chassis number ending 000000000001......! Is this actually the first one produced?

A slight warning with that fabric loom tape - I used it and it is very good BUT almost too good. It's incredibly difficult to take off once on. If you use it, try not to put it near the wire ends where you might want to strip it back one day.

Kit spares sell Gaz coil-overs for the 2B - https://kitspares.co.uk/collections/suspension/products/2b-shock-absorber-set I had to replace my rears last year. If you have a chat with them they'll tell you sizes etc. to make sure you get the right ones. Steve

Let’s hope she’s feeling happy and wants to start Sunday

The joys of owning a kit car, I got this l part myself, I can say it’s money well spent, just remember if it cost £100 tell the wife it cost £25

https://www.buycarparts.co.uk/delphi/1772361?gshp=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwrJOMBhCZARIsAGEd4VEl5fhbXE-17ZYHXlkThwGtLQAdoXNlinaEbB0r6PZmbDtFDyuqynAaAiNMEALw_wcB A lot cheaper than I expected.

Cracking day out. Weather was a bit chilly but we all wrapped up well and were fine. Watched the Lancaster taxi, impressive sight but I don’t think I would spend £385 to join them Museum also we’ll worth a visit. Weather for the next 2 weeks looking a bit iffy so might be Nov before we get together again. Watch this space.